Talking with Alex Bogaard: Portfolio Design, Authentic Storytelling, and how to Engage Buyers and Collectors

In this conversation, Alex Bogaard shares his journey into photography, discussing the balance between commercial work and personal passion. He emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, building a portfolio, and developing a personal style. Alex also highlights the significance of storytelling in photography and how it can be used for conservation efforts. He provides insights on engaging clients, maximizing digital exposure, and the importance of appropriate gear for travel photography. The discussion concludes with advice for budding photographers and a look at Alex's upcoming projects.

Find more from Alex on Instagram at @alexbogaard and his website at www.alexbogaard.com

Court's Websites

• Check out my photo portfolio here: shop.courtwhelan.com
• Sign up for my photo and conservation blog at www.courtwhelan.com
• Follow me on YouTube (@courtwhelan) for more photography tips
• View my camera kit and recommended camera gear

Sponsors and Promo Codes:

• MPB.com - Buy, Sell, or Trade Camera Gear
• ArtStorefronts.com - Mention this podcast for free photo website design
• BayPhoto.com - 25% off your first order (code: TWP25) 
• ArtHelper.com - a photo community to learn, share and be inspired
• Arthelper.Ai - Smart tools to promo and showcase your art.
• LensRentals.com - WildPhoto15 for 15% off

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Court| The Wild Photographer (00:00)
Hello friends. Welcome back to the wild photographer podcast. I'm your host court whelan My guest today is Alex Bogart, a pro photographer from Washington state that specializes in a lot of nature photography, excels at landscape, wildlife, storytelling, people, photography, lifestyle, cultural photography. He does it all. He shares a lot of great tips in today's episode. I wanted to highlight just a few as teasers. He talks about building a portfolio, which is something that I think is

a new topic in the podcast, this idea of selecting images for your client, for the pitch you're going to make. go into some detail there. We talk about storytelling and his plea to remain and be present in the moment. That's the best way to be proactive and reactive with storytelling in your photography. And also he talks about the connection of this is interesting, the quality of your work and the quality of how you're feeling in the moment. We actually get into this during the gear section of how some of his

Favorite camera gear is actually not camera gear at all. It's actually outdoor apparel to keep him comfy warm when he needs to be warm. Cool when needs be cool dry when he needs to be dry

and he makes this connection between feeling comfortable and good in the moment actually results in his very best photography.

So this is just a couple of the topics we go over in today's discussion. So, so many more really enlightening, very inspiring conversation. But before we go into the episode, I wanted to give a shout out to sponsors of this episode, arthelper.ai. So with art, with selling art, with getting your art out there with that, which actually is a pretty big topic of today's discussion is that impetus to get your work out there. One of the things that Alex talks about is his desire. He wishes he would have done that years ago.

So art helper is a great way to do that today. is an AI tool built from the friends at art store fronts. And it's an amazing way to basically market your photos with the help of AI. You submit your photos, you put a little bit of information in art helper, does an amazing job of writing posts, writing blog stories, writing emails, all this stuff that takes a lot of time, a lot of effort in

oftentimes as a barrier to entry to we photographers for getting our stuff out there. So it's an amazing, all encompassing tool to help promote and market your artwork, your photography. The extra special good thing about this is this is built by photographers for photographers. So they take into considerations like the proprietary nature of your photography. Your photos will not be part of the overall AI algorithm. So it protects your work.

This is really, really great stuff. And I invite you to take a look at it. If you use the code wild W I L D as a promo code, you will get a 6month trial of their pro version of the software. I think you're going to really, really like it because, know, especially after you listen to today's episode and the need the drive to get our work out there, it's a really great arrow in that quiver.

In addition, I want to thank lens rentals.com as a sponsor of the podcast. If you use promo code wild photographer 15, when you are checking out at lens rentals.com, you'll get 15 % off. Like I always say, renting lenses and is amazing way to test out a lens before you buy it, or to get a really big fancy lens that you may not want to put as part of a permanent installment in your kit. Maybe it's a very specific lens for a very specific trip.

Lensrentals.com is, I like to say almost like the apple of the lens rentals world. Everything is just perfectly packaged. The customer service is incredible. The way that they send you the lens and ensure its safety and get the lens back from you, it's all dialed in. Very, very little work on your part other than to select the lens of your dream. So go out there, give it a shot. Wild photographer 15 promo code for Lensrentals. Okay, let's get into today's episode with Alex.

Court| The Wild Photographer (03:48)
Alex, welcome to the podcast.

Alex Bogaard (03:50)
Good morning, Court Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Court| The Wild Photographer (03:52)
Alex, you are a pro photographer. You've had a very interesting journey into photography. And I want to hear about that, especially with emphasis on, you know, partially making a living on what you do. you probably have to somewhat in, I'm thinking for myself here, somewhat draw the line between, you know, selling art and maybe shooting gigs, commercial photography, or just simply going to where your passions lie. So I was wondering if you could start.

off by talking about your journey in photography and how it relates to really what you're doing and where your passions are today with photography.

Alex Bogaard (04:24)
Okay, I would start by saying I think my journeys from a photographic standpoint is unusual in that it was late in coming out. So the first 20 plus years of my photography life was a very private, chronically so I would say, to the point where all my work resided pretty much on my laptop and that was it.

you know my immediate family might see glimpses of it here and there but other than that it was just a pastime that I did and just kept private and largely because I felt like my work wasn't good enough to really be out there. There's just so much talent out in the world and that I just didn't feel like I belonged. That changed a few years ago when I attended a photography master class.

So one of the things I decided to do was to, up to that point, I'd essentially been self-taught. And I know from other things in life that that only gets you so far. And at some point, we need help to get to the next level and the next level and make incremental improvements. And so I decided to do that. And I ended up in a masterclass. on day of arrival, this is a one week course.

I was being asked what my portfolio was, and I didn't have one. And I was being asked, what was your website? I didn't have one of those either. And I was the only one in a room of about 20 plus people that wasn't actively making a living doing photography. The faculty that was teaching were all top-notch folks. So they were photographers for Red Bull. They were photographers.

on-star photographers for National Geographic. They were journalists from all over the world that were coming in. And my initial, my initial feeling was I was completely over my skis and did not belong in that room at all. And over the course of the week, based on the critiques I would get from, and we would get from, from the instructors and watching and seeing other people's work, which for me was a first as well, because up to that point it was just my own stuff. There was no...

no way to judge it or evaluate in relation to what somebody else might be doing or thinking about.

And I was very pleasantly surprised. It was well received. And the critiques I got in from the work I could see, felt like I'm actually...

certainly not where I could be in the future, but I have a place in this room. And that was sort of my first hour. And the second was just locally being invited to participate in a local art show. And some of my work came up and that was the very first time I printed anything. And then did it on a certain scale, size-wise, and that was well received as well. And that started the process.

of then, okay, well, if this is something that people like, then let's start getting more deliberate about it.

Court| The Wild Photographer (07:06)
This is great. I immediately have some follow up questions on that. So the first, you know, when you decided to take that master class kudos because I totally agree with you. Like anything, if you want to become a master at it, an expert at anything, you got to put in those 10,000 hours, literally and metaphorically. So that was sort of the response. It's like, okay, I need to up my level of training.

What would you say was the mindset going from someone that has done photography obviously enjoyed it, but wanted to do something more legit with it? Like, like the outcome went beyond the masterclass. The masterclass was sort of the tool as the response to get you to the outcome. I'm just curious what was going through your mind being a budding photographer, maybe having a little bit of imposter syndrome or just not knowing that you really could cut it.

Other than just saying a class would be fun, what was the mentality of, okay, this is why I want to get serious.

Alex Bogaard (08:08)
Yeah, so a couple of parallels. I mentioned that this was not and is still to this day is not my core work. I spent a career and I'm still in that career.

Working on getting better and better and better at a discipline So when you when you look at the business world the business world does this all the time? It's you know you never just sit still you never you never get to a point where you think okay? We've got it all figured out and and there's no more learning to be done. There's no more There are no more problems to be solved so To take that element of my work life as a given and yet not apply it

to it doesn't matter if you're musician or if you're a painter or if you're a photographer or if you're you know you're into sports you're constantly so my mindset number one that was a very logical step and the only rebuke I would have with myself is why did it take you 20 years to get there basically right so that's number one number two naturally for me anyway I enjoy being

the weakest link in the room. In other words, I enjoy having people around me and being around people who are miles better than I am. For some, that's difficult. For me, I soak it up the accelerating effect can be pretty significant. So it means I'm coming into a situation very open-minded.

I have low expectations as to my own standing relative to what's around me. And to that end, anything that comes over the fence is now accretive to that growth. And that to me is a win. There's no downside to it other than perhaps a little humiliation along the way. But if you're okay with that, which I am,

It's actually quite easy. So my mindset is just be open-minded overcome the fear of not fitting in and just go in there and be and Whatever comes out the other end will be what it is, you

Court| The Wild Photographer (09:56)
such an excellent point because when you do get in, you know, so to speak over your head, it gives you the best chance to learn. It's the biggest gap between where you are and where you could be surrounded by others, by experts, people doing it where you might be in 10 years from now. So I think that's a really, really great point. The second thing you mentioned that I wanted to dive a little bit more in on is the portfolio. I think a lot of photographers out there

that are early on in their photographic journey, budding photographers, photographers young and old, maybe thinking, okay, I'm in a similar boat. I've been taking photos. I think they're pretty good. I think I can get better. I am willing to take a course. I'm willing to read some books. I'm willing to listen to podcasts. That's an obvious, if you're listening today. But I think the portfolio is such a easy next step. And I think it's something that people are probably

holding off on because they're waiting for more photos, better photos, they're waiting for that next thing. And it's a little bit of procrastination. And it goes back to this, this mentality of oftentimes the most important thing is the hardest to do because we are quite perfectionist in those pursuits. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how you then developed your portfolio, any lessons you learned from your class, any weaving in event information into your current outlook and how

you would generate a portfolio if you were to redo it, or obviously you're probably honing and improving your portfolio all the time and what others in the audience might do if they're just taking their first step to get a portfolio. I'm thinking how many photos, what kind of photos, how much do you distill down to a certain genre, a certain vibe, knowing that people, myself oftentimes included, we don't know exactly what we want to do with that next opportunity, but we do want it to come.

It's a lot to ask with a simple, do you develop a portfolio question? But there you go.

Alex Bogaard (11:55)
Yeah, so I'm going to borrow from.

the business world here again, right? Because that's my frame of reference for many of these things. So when we asked a question, I think of a portfolio, first of all, as a resume. It's a summary version of showing a story about you as the person, right?

If you ask the question, what should you have in a resume and how should you lay it out, my answer to that would be it depends on who gets this here. So a resume for a position number one with a company number one versus position number one, company number two may not be the same. So what that means then is that the portfolio is curated to the audience to which it's intended.

that's the first thing I would say. In terms of my own development, one of the things I struggle with in the photography world is it seems to me that that world wants to segment photographers into niches, into specialties. You're either a wildlife person, or you're maybe a landscape person, or you're a wedding photographer, or you're a sports photographer. And it seems to me that that world...

loves to just say, well, if you're a sports photographer, that's what you do.

but I'm probably not gonna come to you if I want a landscape shot. I'm gonna go to landscape people, right? And so personally, I struggle with that. feel like I'm too early in my development to be cornered into a specific niche. And so that actually makes it difficult to, back to the portfolio comment, to then say, okay, how do you represent the spread of

the kinds of work you enjoy doing. So for example, I took a trip to Cuba last April and that for me was a first. I had done primarily wildlife and landscape and all of a sudden I'm now in inner city settings. You're talking about portrait photography, you're talking about street photography. It's a very different thing. And I really enjoyed it and some of the work that I came out with, I'm happy with, I like it.

Whether that compares to people that do this all day long don't know don't know that it matters, but I would want that in my portfolio

I don't know that there's an answer for a portfolio. think the main thing would be what's the purpose, who's the audience, and then cater that particular portfolio to that need.

Court| The Wild Photographer (14:19)
And so how many photos are you typically selecting? Cause that probably isn't as subjective. You don't want to inundate but you need to show the proper breadth. And what format are you typically delivering this in? Are you putting it in, you know, a PowerPoint and exporting as JPEGs? Are you doing something different or fancier online that, ⁓ you know, one of these websites, so less about the, the kind of qualitative types of photos, but what are some of the

Alex Bogaard (14:39)
Yep. Yep.

Court| The Wild Photographer (14:48)
the bare bones, the structure of it.

Alex Bogaard (14:50)
Yeah, well I think, you know, photography to me is a thing that in the end product is beautiful and I think the presentation should match that. So it's one thing to take a really beautiful photograph, at least with my PowerPoint skills, it's going to look like a dumb dome thing.

So I did a pitch to the New York Times, and I'll disclose right away, it didn't go anywhere. And I'll explain why in a minute. But I wanted to, for my trip to Cuba, propose a storyline about Cuba that's different than what we typically see in the press. And so what I did on my website is I built out a private page that only

the journalist that was sending that to the New York Times would be able to open. But now it's clean. It goes along with your branding. goes along with the look. It's not a cut and paste job, So it takes a little bit of time to do that. But the presentation, wherever you go present, if you're going to go to the trouble of building a portfolio, then I think it needs to be nice, right?

In the case of the New York Times, it didn't go anywhere because within 24 hours or something, I got a response back. And the question was really interesting. The question was, when you entered Cuba, what was the visa type that you had? And there are five or six different types of visas, or maybe seven or eight, or some number, some single digit number of types of entry permits. And I went in on the visa that was not a journalistic visa, because I'm not a journalist, obviously.

And part of what they shed back is we can't use that work because the only work we can put out relating to Cuba has to come through one of those visas. And so that didn't go anywhere, right? But in terms of presentation, building a portfolio, that's the path I took. That's what got viewed. And yeah, there we are.

Court| The Wild Photographer (16:46)
And then like roughly how many photos are you usually selecting at any one time? it, it standard across pitches? Are you thinking, well, I'm, pitching to a new client that might hire me for wildlife and people or landscapes. And I just want to show them everything. you then keeping the same number, say 20 photos total, or are you just saying, you know what?

Alex Bogaard (17:03)
Yeah, I definitely

know more than 20 probably. And I think you'd be between 10-ish and that number. 10 and 20.

Court| The Wild Photographer (17:11)
is a great,

yeah, 10 to 20. Yep. That's, uh, that's very doable, very doable, but it obviously then puts the impetus on Primo selection, right? But I think anybody out there that's been taking photographs for some time will have 10 or 20 of their own favorite photos. And I, I would personally make the recommendation. I'd be interested to hear what you think is, is you, have to start off with what

resonates with you, what you love, not trying to do art for someone else. If you're trying to fit the mold of what you think the New York Times wants or what you think Lonely Planet wants or Nat Geo or any of these publications, you know, A, you're just going to be kind of copycatting, but B, your own special ability may not come through in the way that you need it to and want it to.

So this is a great segue into a question I ask all photographers and something that I'm personally kind of obsessed with, especially with the advent of the power of post-processing to create into mold style of photography. So style is the question here. I'd like to know what the Alex Bogard photo style is and why. And if you wouldn't mind talking a little bit about the setup for the photo, whether it's the research or the snapping of the shot, as well as how you might

transform that into the final product.

Alex Bogaard (18:30)
Okay, so that's quite the range of terrain, if you will, that we're covering, if I follow your question.

Court| The Wild Photographer (18:36)
but all centered

around your style. Like for instance, you my style is I like big popping colors. I like a good bit of contrast, not too much in post-processing, but I like it to pop out of the screen. I know a lot of other photographers that I truly, truly admire and they take the same genres as me, or they might take totally different ones, more lifestyle, and they're much more monochromatic, they're much more flowy, there's a little bit more haze.

Alex Bogaard (18:58)
Yeah.

Court| The Wild Photographer (19:04)
You know, style, I'm talking about, know, what, you know, like depth of field. Like, are you the kind of person that just wants as much blur in the background as possible? Or are you thinking differently? So yes, I mean, it's ultimately you can answer however you want based on what is your style. But if you wish to go into the depths of how you set up your shot as well as the post-processing, that's, that's a okay. But I ultimately just want to, obviously we're going to link to your portfolio and your website, but yeah, it's all about style for me.

Alex Bogaard (19:19)
Yeah.

Yep.

Okay, so, and I'm gonna put it in the context of landscape and wildlife, let's say, right? So, the style that I desperately want to adhere to is one of authenticity. So, that means to me, I approach these things from...

A very similar mindset to what photojournalism does, which is you either capture it or in the frame, and if it's in the frame, it's in the frame. If it's not there, it's not there. So from a post-op standpoint, I'm not removing stuff and I'm not adding stuff. There's none of that. I don't go anywhere near Photoshop. Largely because I have no idea how to use it. But I'm a... The full Photoshop, right? Yeah, correct. So...

Court| The Wild Photographer (20:11)
The full Photoshop, yeah, the beefy version, yes.

Alex Bogaard (20:19)
That's just a personal thing, right? The authenticity piece of it now relates to some of the things you're sharing, which is, well then what do we manipulate? What do we alter? And to what extent? And when is too much, too much, right? For me, I'm going to look for impact less in what I do in editing, but more in what I can get right out of nature.

So my first layer of thought is I think of the landscape as a stage. And it's a backdrop. If you were to walk into a theater and the curtain goes up and you have a stage on there, the stage might be beautiful. That's the landscape. But then there's another element that needs to come in and that's the actor. And the actor is going to be the thing that is going to interact and create movement or create a story within that landscape.

So the pictures of mine I like that to me are the least impactful are the ones where I've got this beautiful landscape but there's nothing in there. There's nothing happening in there. There's no there's nobody walking across. There isn't a canoe on the river. isn't there isn't the moment. Right. and I will work off of

Court| The Wild Photographer (21:27)
There isn't that moment.

Alex Bogaard (21:32)
that as opposed to trying to augment something else to create the story. So that might be cloud formations. That might be the movement of said clouds in skies. I love moody scenes. So you mentioned misty, foggy, that kind of thing. I happen to really enjoy that. That's not everybody's cup of tea, but.

But I like the layering that that creates. That there's a sort of an invitation to go a little bit in the background, middle ground and background. There is something, but we can't quite see the whole thing.

So that's the first one of the things I would say about my style is authenticity, it's manipulate as little as possible and wait and look for the actor in on the stage. Which now means that okay, you might spend a fair amount of getting to location, a fair amount of time getting to location, fair amount of effort, physical and otherwise to get to location. So.

when I was in Nepal, it's a track to get there, right? And it's a lot of work to be working at 18,000 feet. To then, in my case, hope to get a decent shot of Everest, let's say, and never really coming home with it at all, right? So that combination of things, you've got to be willing to just say, look, if you want all those extra layers in there, it makes the overall effort more difficult and the likelihood of success drops.

and you need to be okay with it, right? With it dropping. As far as coloring and so on and blurring, typically in landscape I'm not doing a lot of blurring anyway, but in wildlife, you could, you might. I don't do anything to augment blurring really in wildlife and landscape. I think that's just gets, it's easily set with the focal length setting.

One of the things that I have found with color and desaturating, so in other words removing color and moving from a color photograph to a black and white, let's say, is to me, black and white is a really good tool for homing in and focusing on a specific subject and quietening everything else in the background down. It makes the subject pop more without using

color and there is still texture in the background but it's quiet. It doesn't compete with the subject where color might. So you might have situation where there's a photograph behind me of a rodeo. That setting is a good example where there are lots of colors usually in those particular things and if

The guy behind the horse was wearing a bright pink top, which they often do, or this is the umpire, if you will, so he's got the black and white stripe deal. When you contrast that, it can be really distracting, right, to the overall thing, because there's this thing in the background that keeps wanting to yell out at you, and you're trying to get that to go quiet. So you can do that with blurring, but you can also do that by lowering the color temperatures on that.

Court| The Wild Photographer (24:36)
You mentioned storytelling a couple of times and having seen your website and portfolio, you are a fantastic storyteller in your photography. And, I really agree and will underline that point that storytelling is so critical in photography. It's something that I myself am trying to get better at. don't think I really started off as a great storyteller in my photography, but it's something I'm really honing in on. So almost as a selfish question, I'm curious to know.

your approach to incorporating storytelling in your photography. And basically, I'm trying to pick your brain on this, but maybe an interesting way to answer would be what makes one photo with great storytelling have that storytelling element versus another that just is kind of blah, it doesn't have the story. And then in addition to that, I'm curious about how proactive you might be in setting up the story or

researching the story versus reactive to seeing it in your mind and saying, that's the photo. That's the moment. That's the photo. So feel free to explain in any way you want. thought I'd like the whole photo one with the story one without as an interesting way to kind of distill it down, but feel free. I'm just curious your approach on it. And then also, um, some advice you might have on getting it.

Alex Bogaard (25:54)
Yeah, so.

I think there are definitely moments where I, in the planning and how I think about the trip, I mean typically my trips are set out some number, minimum some number of months in advance, which means I'm constantly thinking about that trip the closer we get to it. And so there are definitely settings where, okay, we're thinking about the trip, we're thinking about what we're going to see, and...

and we might develop our own story about the things we think we're going to see. This is our own story, board There's a reason why, for example, I might be drawn to, well, why Cuba? Why Nepal? Why?

why the Galapagos, why whatever, right? And for each one of these, there's sort of this story that goes off in my head anyway. just, these are the things I think I'm gonna see. I look forward to being in that environment. I look forward to the weather and the heat and the smell and the people and the food and all of those things. And naturally this, for me, this storyboard just starts to happen. I may go to a place and say, I have an idea of a photograph I'd really like to get.

And that one will be sort of set in my brain where would be, ⁓ the perfect background would be this, the perfect light would be that, the subject is exactly in this part, blah, blah. And that's about the extent of it. I think the other part of the storytelling is...

Being willing to let go of all of that, all those preconceived ideas of the things we know or plan to do, and allowing yourself to truly be in the moment, in the space, in the environment. And then it's matter of being open-minded and simply opening your eyes and being aware. I think photographers, by their nature, are generally really good observers.

And so if that's a skill that we have, then focus on that. I spend less time fretting about, this is the shot I wanted, am I gonna get it? And how do I position myself to get it and sort of manipulate myself into that. As opposed to the photograph in and of itself is for me is not my end goal. It's hopefully the outcome, but my success rate is low.

I might take a thousand shots and there might only be two or one or none that sort of make any kind of cut. And so we have to find joy and satisfaction out of something else. And for me is allow yourself to let all those preconceived ideas go and then be really present. And then it's amazing just on how much just takes place.

What I also enjoy doing is if I'm with somebody else in photography, well, when we go on these travel group with you guide, for example, you might have four or five photographers with you, right? There might be four five of us literally shoulder to shoulder photographing the same thing,

But what's interesting in that exercise is my photograph may be very different to the person right next to me and yet we're looking at the same thing. So what is it that makes the difference between mine and hers even though we literally are on the same spot, literally looking at the same thing? And I think the difference is how we observe and what we observe.

And that then influenced the composition and influences how the thing is presented and that's a whole different story. Same spot, same subject, same environment, same light, same day, time of day, same everything. Even same gear if you wanted to. And yet the one variable in this is what goes on between the ears of each one and what they see. And that's a very personal thing, right?

And I think the beauty of it is to be open to letting that be as opposed to having the formulaic approach of pre-trip, right? And then trying to impose that on the trip.

Court| The Wild Photographer (29:40)
Beautifully said, beautifully said. Alex, what excites you coming up? What projects do you have going on? What are new shoots, new adventures? What's coming up that excites you?

Alex Bogaard (29:49)
Yep.

So I've got a personal project that I'm excited about, which is more of family project. So when I was young, my first trip was when I was six. With my parents, we did four Trans-Sahara expeditions, sort of back to back. And my father was too young, obviously, to do any photography at the time, but my father did. And so there is this trove of...

thousands of slides that I've sat in boxes and in various attics in suboptimal humidity environments and been carted around in cars and trucks and so on and so forth and they go back to the 70s.

and they capture a time in the desert and a time in that part of the world, in North Africa, that today is very different. So one of the projects I look forward to doing is going through those with the eye that I have today, which is different than my father's eye and is different than the eye I would have had five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen years ago.

and seeing if I, one, can identify a handful of them that really sort of stand out, and then if I can resurrect them to a level of quality that would be good enough to put on a wall, let's say, right? So that's a fun project. I have not done it yet, have not started yet.

and conversations about, okay, what's the best way to convert a slide film that's been exposed to mold or been exposed to dust and how do you bring it back and do you scan it or do you take another shot of it? mean, so those are the kinds of things. From a trip standpoint, first off, I'm gonna go check out your travel company and go have a look at some of the trips that you're doing. I've got a couple on...

ideas on the storyboard. One is a horse packing trip in the west of the western United States. That would take me out in basically the wilderness for 10 days or so. And so that's one. Another possibility is Malaysia.

And the trip there would be the way it's being sort of fleshed out at the moment would be specifically with the purpose of storytelling. So we're going at it with a very journalistic point of view, which is not something I've yet. And so that's interesting to me because it's going to force me into an area I haven't been in. So back to...

that planning, think the level of planning and identifying what, at least what story arc you want to explore, because once you're there, you want to hit the ground running and get focused on what it is you're doing, no pun intended. And so I don't yet know what that subject is, but there'll be a conservation element to it, I hope. So that's something else I'm working on, not fleshed out yet.

Court| The Wild Photographer (32:31)
Fantastic. Well, yeah, if you need any tips on Malaysian Borneo, I'll be headed there again now, probably guiding my eighth year going down there and the wildlife is extraordinary. So it is Malaysia, but it's on the island of Borneo and the orangutans and the proboscis monkeys are just some of the greatest photographic subjects in the world. So if you're headed over to Peninsular Malaysia, might be worth the hop and to skip over to Borneo Island for some of that and be happy to advise.

Alex Bogaard (32:42)
⁓ okay.

I'd love to, if you're willing to do that, I'd love to take you up on that.

Court| The Wild Photographer (33:00)
Yeah, sure. yeah, I love

I want to share the love that is my affection for Borneo. It's a pretty extraordinary place. Getting back to the business of photography, how do you engage clients and buyers? What are the ways and what have you found works best with your photography to engage buyers and clients?

Alex Bogaard (33:23)
It starts typically with, I happen to have a space where I've got some of my work up. So somebody can come in, and in a sense it's a portfolio too. It's a smattering of some of the different things I've done, and if you were to walk through the space, you would essentially see a portfolio on a wall, And that gives an individual a sense of...

Can I connect with this work? Is this something that's interesting to me or does it leave me numb? If it leaves me numb, then it probably is going to go very much further. But if there's an interest, there might be that I like what you've done, but there isn't a subject here that I as an individual am connecting and therefore I don't know that yet know what I want to do with it. So the first point is seeing the portfolio and then is there a connection with it? From there,

I take all of my stuff and I put it to the side. I'm not sitting here trying to sell a picture or trying to sell a print. I'm now actively engaged in discovering what it is that that individual, all those individuals are moved by. And a lot of that comes from their own experiences in life, right? So that discovery piece,

is can take multiple conversations. But it might play out like this. They'll look at a picture. So I'll give an example, a recent client experience. I did some photography documenting wild mustangs here in Northwestern America. And I had a photograph of a white mustang and a black mustang running straight at the lens.

and the gentleman came in and he went straight for that picture and he said, I really like that. So rather than saying, great, you know, and then, and then go into the commercial side, I asked him, what is it about that that you like? And that translated into,

his story with his spouse and they own multiple businesses they've had, he's been in the military, they've got a fascinating life up to this particular point. But that particular picture triggered for them an emotion and a relationship to some of their life experiences. So the question he then asked me is, okay, do you have any shots around this one? I see this one, but do you have any others? And so I went back to my archives and created a small section of, I think it six.

six or eight of photographs that had those same two mustangs in them and reduced it down to that and then we sat down and went to visit their home and

they identified the places where they would want those. And then we got the family engaged. So the children were involved. So when I went to visit, the kids came and the kids came to my space as well to have a look. And then when I left those six to eight photographs for them to think about as a family, they all got together and engaged and made their choice. So the whole thing is very much sort of collaborative, almost very custom, very specific to that individual, right? That storyline might not speak

speak

to the next hundred people. But it spoke to them. And so the byproduct of that would be they now know that they have something that's specific to them, that's customized to them, that's tailored to them. And none of those are on my website. None of those are on the wall anywhere. And so there's also the realness of this is kind of unique because not everybody gets to see this, right?

So that's the process I try to go through, is I look for what is the thing I can help bring out in your life or connect in your life that can resonate enough where you would say, I want this in big in my home. I can't.

It's tough to imagine for me, from a photography standpoint, a bigger compliment than somebody saying, I want a six foot version of this on a wall in my house. So that's kind of the process. It's built from there, and the photography then comes after.

Court| The Wild Photographer (37:04)
It's a really interesting perspective. love bringing the emotion, the connection right off the bat. So obviously getting your photos, a portfolio of sorts in front of people is a pretty pivotal first step. Do you have any advice for folks that may not have their photos in a gallery yet or maybe working on that, but want to also maximize exposure from digital means, from a website, et cetera? Obviously it's never going to be quite as impactful as seeing something

Alex Bogaard (37:30)
Yeah.

Court| The Wild Photographer (37:33)
actually printed, actually framed on a wall with lighting. But any advice you have to folks that can't quite swing the gallery yet, but wish to still get their photos in front of people and take your lessons of invoking the emotion, making that connection. Because I think that's a brilliant, brilliant point, but doing so with other means.

Alex Bogaard (37:52)
Yeah, and in a sense, I'm actually not a great person to ask that question of the answer I believe lies in the technology and the social media to go do that. So website is one, but then the challenge with a website is, you know, there's a trillion websites out there. How do they go to that? Right? So social media has a role to play and I'm the kid at the back of the class when it comes to really being good at it or working it and I'm...

I'm no good. mean, take any 12-year-old and they'll run rings around me all day on that stuff. But I think the answer lies therein. For some, in my case too, when the pieces, if I think of the pieces that have made it onto somebody's wall, they're all people that...

For one reason or another, I've made a personal, in-person connection with. So what does that mean? Well, it means that my market is local. Really. I have pieces that, it's kind of fun for me now as I've started doing this, I've got some pieces, I've got a piece in New Zealand, I've got a couple in Portugal, I've got one in Puerto Rico, I've got, know, so I'm putting these little pins on a map to go say, oh, I've got one in San Francisco and Utah and blah, But...

That's because where the people end up, but at one point or another, we were in the same space. marketing to your local community is, for me I found is, and catering to them, serving your local community is probably the starting point. I'm not over renowned where I can, I have a name that somebody in New York's gonna find me.

randomly, right? Let's say they can, but it's unlikely that they will. Let's just put it that way. Word of mouth is a big component of it. Like any other business, the service you give around it.

So in pre-identifying the picture, what the experience is, for them it's a journey. When they have a piece on the wall, it's not just, like the piece, I bought it. It's they like the fact that we probably spent 10, 15 hours together before we ever get to that stage, right? And that whole experience is what also is part of their journey. And then if they're gonna spend, you know, a few thousand dollars.

you know, people work hard to make that kind of money and have it as disposable income, they want it to count. And so thinking about that part of the business is important too. As far as getting the word out, social media probably is the anchor point to all of it. And there lots of people better qualified than I am to really get into the how of that.

Court| The Wild Photographer (40:16)
It's a really salient point though about social media and it's something that kind of struck me even though I'm involved in social media and I certainly understand the role of social media in photography and of even other topics like conservation and storytelling. But the couple of key tenants you talk about with your gallery of creating a connection, harnessing the community, putting photos in front of people in an impactful way.

You can indeed make those parallels with social media. It's not gonna be the same as an in-person gallery, but creating community, creating a relationship, you know, it's got those ingredients. So yeah, a very interesting kind of low investment. Well, other than the time it takes, which is pretty significant on social media, but nevertheless, I can absolutely see the parallels and it's a really, really great point.

Alex Bogaard (40:52)
Thank

takes time.

Court| The Wild Photographer (41:04)
so you mentioned the local community, the people coming into your gallery. Do you mostly have photos from the local area in your gallery?

Alex Bogaard (41:18)
Great question, great question. So yes, mostly, but I also make a point of showing things that are not local. So again, to see that range. if we were to look at the portfolio as a pie, the majority of the pie, in my case is here are things that are local. these are.

places the local people were recognized, all their moments that the place was. This is the local annual, taken at the local annual rodeo, right? This is a small town, very sort of proud of its roots and proud of what it does every year.

And so that's that. But at the same time, I also wanted a piece of the pie. It might be 20%, 30%, whatever, that then brings in work or scenes from other places. I have one wall in particular where none of the things on the wall are for sale, it's the photographs of Cuba.

And it's a story wall, is all that is. And I've got, I don't know, 12, 14-odd pictures that are 18 by 24, they're all same dimensions, and they capture different scenes of that trip. And so what allows the people who come to do is to see something outside of just our local community reflected on the walls. Like there's a whole other world out there too. And right now I've got some things of Cuba there.

But if I end up going to Malaysia, the next wall is going to be different. And so when they come in, we can talk about these trips. And then the questions come up about gear and what do you do and how did you get this one and how cold was it when you took that particular photograph? So I would say I'm probably 30 % in here that's not local. And the rest is caters more to what people are going to be more likely drawn to here.

Court| The Wild Photographer (43:03)
The topic of conservation has come up a few times in this conversation, and I know that you do use your photography for conservation in some cases and in many cases, and I believe you're involved with the chimpanzee sanctuary in your local area. In fact, I recently saw a news clip of you talking about this in some of your work. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about your efforts or your role of photography in conservation, perhaps with the chimpanzee sanctuary as an example, or perhaps other things.

Alex Bogaard (43:33)
So the general idea with...

with conservation is we have to tell a story. We have to tell a story about whatever it is we're trying to conserve or protect or raise awareness for. And as we all know, there lots of different ways of telling stories, but the visual arts, you the old adage of a picture is worth a thousand words cliche, maybe a cliche, but there's an element of truth to it, right?

I think photography has a role to play in contributing to the story, augmenting the story for reception and for adoption by the people who are listening to it. And it's just one of these senses, if you will, right? But it happens to be, I think, a really important one.

So I remember distinctly watching and listening to documentary about shark finning and the trade of that and the devastating effect it has to the shark population and the devastating effect it has to then that entire ecosystem. And photographers, it's difficult to capture sort of the gruesomeness of that.

in that particular documentary, the shot that ended up resonating was a photograph, and in fact, there was a photograph that came out of that, but it might actually have been a movie clip, of a shark who had been de-finned if you will, and was essentially drowning and was gasping. And that...

That visual.

just brings to the forefront this, people have a visceral impact, reaction to that, most people, right? So what is the photograph, what is the moment where you're gonna get attention and you're gonna evoke an emotion? If you evoke an emotion, then you have a chance of talking about conservation. If we don't get an emotion, it's just another sound bite out of the gazillion sound bites we're all gonna get on our phones today.

and it'll go in here, it'll go out there, we'll consume it in 15 seconds or less and move on. And conservation is trying to figure out how do we grab somebody's attention long enough to, one, grab the attention, two, for long enough of a period of time, three, to invoke emotion, and then hopefully four, which is a big ask, to then evoke a reaction and a response and an action. It's one thing, hey, it's compelling story, did you know? Okay, that's one step.

But what do we do with that knowledge down the road, right? So that's a difficult thing to accomplish. It's a tall order to accomplish. I think photography and the visual part of the storytelling.

is a really important part of that process. Relative to the chimpanzees,

it so happened that then our little community here in Cleal in Washington was just on the eastern side of the state.

five or six miles away, down a country road, up in the hills, there's a chimpanzee sanctuary. And of all the places you would imagine on the planet to have one of those, this wouldn't be what you would pick, right? But we have one. And that in and of itself was kind of remarkable, and so I got interested in finding out more about that. One of the things I try to do once a year in the local community is do pro bono work.

So now somebody needs or wants photographic material for whatever purpose, their website, awareness, conservation purposes, whatever. So I went to find out more about this sanctuary, and it turns out that...

This particular sanctuary is the only sanctioned sanctuary west of Texas. And the story of these chimps in a nutshell are and were initially taken out of captivity, were often bred in captivity, were used for experimental purposes in laboratory settings.

These primates are not much smaller than we are. If you think of breadth of shoulders, if they were to stand up straight, you know, they might be five, five and a half feet tall, who often are in cages that are barely wider than their shoulders and probably less than six feet long.

The cages are then suspended in the air so that when they go to the restroom, it falls down to the floor and it's easier to clean. And they have a very long lifespan. And the chimps that are at this particular sanctuary, they're something that's 40 plus years old. And they've been born in captivity, and they've been in those environments for decades. The law changed in...

I think it's 2015 where now experimentation on primates was made illegal.

but all these chimps are sitting in labs. And so what do you do with a population of chimpanzees that now need to be housed somewhere else in some other way? And housing a chimpanzee is no small matter because they are very agile, as you might imagine. They are phenomenally strong. And for their safety and the safety of everybody else, they have to be kept in very specific setting. This particular local...

Sanctuary does an exemplary job of that. It's still suboptimal from the chimpanzee's point of view. It's still captivity. But it's captivity in a way that they have outdoor spaces they can now go into. They can go climb trees.

They have indoor settings that they can walk in and out of at their own choosing. They have communities among which they live. And the photographic work here is to raise the awareness locally. What those folks need is awareness, number one, because they need volunteers to come and help do the work that it takes. And like every other nonprofit, they need funding. And so to the extent that...

some of my work can help in that effort, then that's what I volunteered to do for 2024 and 2025.

Court| The Wild Photographer (49:10)
Fantastic work and yeah, heartbreaking but inspiring story for sure. So we're about to get into a section to talk about some of your camera gear, which I'm very much looking forward to because I'm kind of a gear nerd. But I do have one final kind of philosophical question. I'm wondering what would the Alex of today tell the Alex just starting in his photographic journey?

Alex Bogaard (49:36)
I wish this is not equipment related, this is more my own mindset related. I wish I had started opening up my own work decades earlier. I think I would be decades further down the road than I am today. I kept it so close that literally nobody saw anything until very recently.

Court| The Wild Photographer (49:40)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Bogaard (49:56)
So I wish I'd done that and if for the main reason that I'm actually enjoying, beginning to enjoy watching people react to what they're seeing and finding pleasure in that, that's one. But then the other thing is the growth that's taking place for me in terms, by doing that has been pretty good. And it just would never have happened if I hadn't done that. So I wish I'd done that 20 years ago.

Court| The Wild Photographer (50:18)
There you go, folks. Start today.

Alex Bogaard (50:19)
And it might be that I might

Court| The Wild Photographer (50:21)
Right. There was, there's sort of a saying I've, know, this kind of goes for anything out there, but it was a book on like YouTube strategy. I was reading and they said, you know, the best time to have gotten into YouTube was 18 years ago. The second best time is today. And I think that's, that's a great point to kind of, ⁓ continue on from your point there. It would certainly be great to have started many years ago, but

For those in the audience that haven't yet begun their journey, getting their work out there per Alex, per me, get it out there today. It's the second best time.

Alex Bogaard (50:54)
Yeah, yeah, get it out there. Somebody's gonna like it.

Court| The Wild Photographer (50:58)
Okay, so let's talk about gear. What are you shooting on?

Alex Bogaard (51:02)
At the moment I am shooting on Nikon... Excuse me.

I said that. Sony. Sony. I've never shot on Nikon. I shot on Canon for...

Court| The Wild Photographer (51:09)
Sony, yes, yes.

Alex Bogaard (51:19)
15, 20 odd years. And with travel photography, so for me it might be, I might be in a backpack, my gear's in a backpack, or it's on the back of a motorcycle, off the grid somewhere. Weight is an issue, size is an issue, where space is a premium. And...

So for years, the Canon gear is the gear I had, right? And I had built up and those are sort of ecosystems of their own. And so when you start building up equipment over time, that's not inexpensive. You're sort of, at least I was, I was married to it, And then I went on a photo trip and a couple of the pro photographers there had Sony equipment.

Court| The Wild Photographer (51:54)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Bogaard (52:03)
And I've not kept up with Canon since in the last five years, but I'm pretty sure Canon's there now. But at the time, I would say everything was probably 25 to 30 % smaller and lighter. And that really resonated with me. And so I made the decision to switch and go over to Sony. And so that's what I shoot on.

Court| The Wild Photographer (52:21)
Mm

Yeah, I can say so I've been on the Canon platform since the beginning. Same thing. You just make these investments and it's hard to go back. There was a point where I was actually thinking about switching everything over to Sony and it just didn't end up panning out. I'm happy to say Canon has definitely leveled up. think Sony started out the gates really fast and really strong. But yeah, I'm really happy with my R5 It's gotten smaller. It's lighter. The

The new lenses coming out are like half the weight, which makes a big difference for you and I for travel. ⁓ massive. Yeah.

Alex Bogaard (52:46)
Yep.

It makes a huge difference. It makes a huge difference. Yeah. And that space

element is... That's good to hear that Canon's doing that. That's great because they... I shot with a 5D for years and years and years and it's... There's no knocking it. It's a great, solid, reliable product. Sony does a very good job too. So I enjoy Sony at the moment. I have the Alpha 1.

Court| The Wild Photographer (53:03)
Mm-hmm.

And what body are you shooting on?

Alex Bogaard (53:14)
and the seven, I want to say it's called seven R five, something like that. Yeah.

Court| The Wild Photographer (53:17)
Yep, yep, yep, A7R5, excellent. Yeah, two

phenomenal cameras right there. The A1, what a flagship. Excellent for video as well. What about lenses? What are your favorite lenses or lens if it happens to be all in one for your work? You know, we're talking about wildlife, nature, travel, kind of lifestyle.

Alex Bogaard (53:33)
Yep,

yep. So for wildlife, the 100 to 400 lens, if I had, if space wasn't an option, weight's not an option, and money's not an option, which in my case, none of these three are realistic. But if they were, then I'd love to have a 500 or 600 millimeter fixed focal length. But in terms of the combination of compact,

weight and reach, that's an excellent lens. And the best lens you have is the one that you've actually got on you as opposed to the one you're not taking with you. You have it, but if you don't take it, it doesn't do you any good. So I would say that for wildlife for sure. For landscape, I would pull, I would probably bring two with me. I would bring the 24-70.

And again, both of those zoom lenses allow you range and options as opposed to fixed lenses. And I also would bring a 14 millimeter. I have a 14 millimeter that gives you a lot of range too, but a different kind of range. It's lateral as opposed to bringing the background closer. This is...

pulling the edges in and getting that scale. So depending on the scene and the setting, if the beauty of the place and the stage is just the jaw dropping breadth of it, that's a great lens to play.

Court| The Wild Photographer (54:54)
Yeah, I have a similar one it has a zoom range to it. It's a 15 to 35. It's a newer lens for me I've always had that range but for the new body the new system and really really loving it In fact, it's in my camera kit right now heading down to the monarch sanctuaries of Mexico and I'll mention Just to put your your mind at ease on the big prime. So I just sort of a funny aside I did rent a 400 2.8 about a month or so ago just truly to like experiment with to see like

Alex Bogaard (54:58)
Yeah.

Court| The Wild Photographer (55:22)
because I've never shot on one I've never held one and I just wanted to see like if I think I said this in my last podcast so listeners you'll just have to chuckle on your own but you know if I found a third kidney or decided I only needed one I could get that lens but I really just wanted to see like you know tell people to advise it's just getting handholdable you know it's about six and six point eight pounds you know so it's like a little less than seven pounds so you can kind of hold it but I gotta say

Alex Bogaard (55:25)
Yep.

Yes.

Court| The Wild Photographer (55:47)
The thing is a behemoth and you know, the 600 millimeters about the same. And I think it is just out of reach for travel, for travel photography. So just to put your mind at ease, I've tried it. I've thought about it. I can tell you the 100 to 400, I shoot in the 100 to 500, just so much infinitely easier. And then also just having zoom ranges for anything. I was at a point where I was really considering getting the venerable 85 1.2 class of lenses.

because I do a lot of travel photography, a lot of people photography during travel. And, you know, I'm in these places and not having purchased it yet, thinking about it as I'm using my 24 to 105, I'm just thinking there's no way I'll be able to get the shot that I have right now if I didn't have the zoom capability. So yeah, with travel, I hear you zoom is where it's at the 24 to 70 24 105. But then having that X factor lens, like you say, like a 14 prime, which probably has a really, really great

Alex Bogaard (56:16)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Court| The Wild Photographer (56:43)
low F number, know, big maximum aperture. You know, what if you're going to shoot at dawn or dusk? What if you get some really cool night scenes? Yeah, cool.

Alex Bogaard (56:45)
It does.

That's right, that's right.

So for night scenes, it's phenomenal. But it's also versatile, because once you start to get into rural, excuse me, urban places and spaces get tight, that opens up the space a lot. So there's some challenges that come with that too, but nonetheless, it's an interesting, and it's small. So it's not difficult to throw in the bag and make it part of the kit. For portraits, I'm gonna go somewhere maybe...

Court| The Wild Photographer (57:02)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Alex Bogaard (57:14)
unusual, but with in Cuba is a great place and I just love that lens and it's 135, Sony has 135 millimeter fixed. And you go, why would you use 135 for portrait and street photography? And the reason is I find that when it's one part respect for people.

And it's one part getting them more comfortable because it allows you to be further away and still be close up without literally walking up to somebody and saying, can I take a picture? And then sticking a lens 18 inches from their face. I mean, that turns me off. It turns most people off. But if I can be standing 20 feet away and have a very similar reach.

I have found that to be really effective and people's body language is completely different.

Court| The Wild Photographer (58:13)
And it's a beautiful depth of field lens because I think it's like F 1.8 or something. And so when you compare that at that focal length, it looks like an 85 1.2. It looks like, you know, a 50.9. I know some manufacturers make that. So yeah, it's a beautiful lens. Actually, good guide buddy of mine who was on this podcast about a year ago, Rich De Gouveia guides a lot of chimpanzee treks in Uganda and

Alex Bogaard (58:14)
It's a gorgeous lens. Yes, it's a gorgeous lens.

us.

Yeah.

Court| The Wild Photographer (58:40)
That's his X factor lens for photographing portraits of chimps. Even though you think wildlife, why would you shoot with a prime? Why would you shoot at 135? It's such a weird distance from an animal, but the stuff he's sending back is just unbelievable. So yeah.

Alex Bogaard (58:43)
is it? Interesting. Yeah, there you go.

No, it really works

and it's smaller to handle. As a lens, it's not the lightest lens, but it's still lighter than 100-400. It's much easier to pack. When you're clunking around in the shrub and something, it's less for stuff to catch onto. I think it's a fantastic lens.

Court| The Wild Photographer (59:09)
So you travel a lot as part of your work. What packing or prepping advice do you have for photographers out there?

Alex Bogaard (59:17)
Yeah, so I'm going to move away from photographic gear, if I could for a second, and go in a different direction on it. I think packing right to have you, the photographer, warm enough, dry enough, not overheated, is every bit as important as making sure you've got the right camera gear with you.

Court| The Wild Photographer (59:21)
Sure, yeah, yeah.

Alex Bogaard (59:38)
And if those elements aren't there, if you're too cold or you're soaked, never mind whether your camera gear is soaked, but if you're soaked yourself, it makes for a much more difficult experience. in my mind, there is a connection between quality of the work and how you're feeling. At least for me, is how I'm feeling, right?

So right ring gear, right layering. I love to be up in the mountains, so I would say don't have any cotton on you at all. Wicking materials, layering, the right quality gear. It's an investment too.

And then from a photographic standpoint, aside from the lenses and everything else we talked about, there's one piece of kit I forgot to bring with me on a trip this last October. So I live up in Washington state, Northwest, and we have a rainforest along the Pacific coast. Washington might as well be a big rainforest itself. There's enough rainfall over here for that. But I didn't bring anything to protect the camera gear.

And I'm sitting on basically a fishing boat all day. And the fishing guys were changing their clothing out. By the end of the day, they were onto their third coat. It was so wet. And part way through, I hadn't brought the appropriate cover for the gear. I had it for me, but I didn't have it for the gear. And humidity got in.

in between the camera body and the lens itself. And so you started fogging up from the inside. And that's your day, right? You're done. And now you're done sitting there in the cold, in the rain, in the wet, and on top of that you can't shoot. So that was a reminder to go, okay, there's some pretty easy stuff I should have thought about and I didn't. And that's an obvious one.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:01:12)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, a couple couple takeaways there So one quote that another guide buddy of mine drew Hamilton likes to say is there's no such thing as bad weather only inappropriate gear and bad attitudes Which is you know, you've sort of hit that nail on the head And then also, you know a quick little pro tip on the camera fogging from the inside thing First of all, it's the worst thing that can happen like maybe the worst because you can't use your gear or if you are the photos are just terrible

Alex Bogaard (1:01:24)
There you go.

Exactly right.

They're no good,

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:01:41)
it always starts from the middle works

out. you know, you're just, you're sitting a sitting duck there. ⁓ but one thing I've noticed in this, this may not be the case for, for you or for those out there, but a pro tip I have, so we're quite susceptible to this in Borneo because the ambient humidity is so high that, know, a rain cover for your camera might do something, but it's just, it's the air that's thick with it. And I've noticed.

⁓ that when it happens most, when my camera from the inside fogs up, this has now happened a couple of times for me. I noticed it's when I've had my camera. You know, in on the strap around my neck and the camera body sitting on my chest or on my stomach, like kind of close to my body heat and not saying this is a panacea, but there's something about that body heat warming up the camera and it's the differential. And so now when I'm out for long time and the humidity super

Alex Bogaard (1:02:25)
Yep, a differential. Yep. Yep.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:02:32)
thick, just have this little camera clip that's now on my backpack strap. It's from Peak Design and it just, keeps it enough away from my body and knock on wood, it hasn't happened. So I think, you your advice and number one thing is to have the appropriate cover and gear to protect your camera. in those unavoidable situations, yeah, I found just resisting really trying to not have that camera gear leaning against you to prevent that heat building up was a little.

a little trick I've found over the last few years in Borneo. So this is a related question about gear. What is a piece of gear for nature photography that is surprisingly helpful that people may not think about?

Alex Bogaard (1:02:59)
Yep. Yep.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:03:13)
I'll give you a hint one of my past guests. Brilliant idea I now bring with me just said a small little microfiber towel. So to the to the point of like the rain, it's like just something to dry off your camera. And so that's the kind of thing I'm thinking of like something that's not a lens or it's not directly related. But like what what's something that people might take away from this?

Alex Bogaard (1:03:22)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I would agree. think that little piece of kit is important and because of my recent experience I would say camera cover.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:03:40)
camera

cover. Yep. Yep. Do you have a favorite brand that you use for camera covers? Yeah.

Alex Bogaard (1:03:44)
No, not

necessarily. I'd have to look at what brand I've got. The one I have is, I'd have to look at it, but it's sort of a neoprene based type. So I can tell you some of the features though. has, first of all, will encompass the entire lens and the hood as well as the body. And then it has access ports on both sides of the camera so that you can get your hands in.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:03:48)
Sure.

Alex Bogaard (1:04:05)
and your hands are also fully covered at that particular point. And you can get access to all the controls versus something that's sort of more skin tight and now you can't quite get to all the pieces. So yeah, I would bring that.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:04:18)
Yeah, and I'm gonna underline that point. Super valuable piece of gear. And then my little additional tip is that if you do spring for one of these camera jackets, I think mine's called like a storm jacket, but Peak Design makes some, is really spend a little bit of extra money on it. Get a better version because if the impetus is for you to actually use this, it means you're going to be photographing out in the rain and who knows when it's gonna stop and it's gonna be uncomfortable.

Alex Bogaard (1:04:31)
here.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:04:44)
So spending that extra $20 to make it as comfortable and as workable as possible, despite the environment, trying to make you stop doing what you're doing. It's worth the little bit of extra money to get something that's really well engineered, very well designed that you can use and get your hand in there and, and, know, rack focus if you need to, or use the telephoto, uh, be able to see through the viewfinder, the screen, if that's where you're using. Just being very, very deliberate about it. There are some really, really inexpensive ones that are just kind of glorified.

Alex Bogaard (1:05:07)
Yeah. Yeah.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:05:12)
Ziploc bags with a little draw tie on it. And I find that they work and they're fine. But I find myself just saying, eh, I'm just gonna let my camera get wet. And that's not the right thing to do.

Alex Bogaard (1:05:24)
No,

it's not. then I totally agree with what you're saying. The other thing I would suggest, especially if you're using zoom lenses, depending on the mechanics for zooming. So my particular lens, when you zoom in, the tube of the lens comes out. So the lens gets longer or shorter. And...

I want the cover to be able to extend all the way with it. If it doesn't extend with it, then either it's going to interfere with the mechanics of the lens. And so now you're trying to get your lens in the right space and you're fighting the cover all the time. But then the other thing is if the...

since it's one tube sliding into the other, if moisture and wet builds up on the smaller of the tubes because it's now extended out and then when we pull it back in, we're pulling that moisture back into the lens, given how full of electronics they are with the autofocus and the image stabilization and all the, I would imagine it's probably not a great combo.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:06:16)
Yeah,

I'm just getting chills over here thinking about that. know exactly what you're talking about. There's if there's anything I dry off my camera first, it is that barrel of the interior lens because you're right. You'll just drop right into the camera lens. And you know, the the temporary fogging sometimes is the least of long term concerns. Sometimes these things can get mold in them and all sorts of stuff. So yeah, proper protection of camera gear. is paramount. Well, Alex, that brings me to the end of my questions. I do have one last one for you. First of all, this has been a

Alex Bogaard (1:06:35)
Yeah, yeah.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:06:45)
Great conversation. I've learned a lot and very inspired by your work and your ideas and the way you think about photography. But I want to tell people where to find you. Where can we find Alex Bogard?

Alex Bogaard (1:06:55)
Okay, you can find me on Instagram at Alex Bogard, A-L-E-X-B-O-G-A-A-R-D, or you can find me at alexbogard.com.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:07:06)
Fantastic. Easy enough. We'll put those in the show notes, folks. Once again, Alex, been a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining and sharing your wisdom and yeah, best of luck in all your pursuits and your upcoming adventures. maybe we'll talk about Borneo. Maybe we'll talk about some other adventures.

Alex Bogaard (1:07:21)
I'd love to do

that call. Yeah, thank you. So send me if you don't mind, send me your contact info and I'll look at the trips we've got coming up. Okay.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:07:29)
certainly can do. Well, once again,

thank you, Alex, and thanks everyone for joining.

Alex Bogaard (1:07:33)
Okay, thank you so much.

Court| The Wild Photographer (1:07:34)
Hey folks, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. know I really enjoyed the discussion with Alex. I learned a lot. I was very, very inspired by many things that he said. So hope you were too. I wanted to turn you on to a couple of things, a way to get a hold of me or a way to watch the episodes as well. If you're listening to this on a podcast platform, you can head over to my YouTube channel. That's just at court whelan on YouTube, or you can search court whelan on YouTube, however you want to do it.

And you can also, you can leave a rating on the podcast platform of your choice. That is probably one of the best ways to help the show. If you'd like, you can leave up to a five star rating and you can even review it.

And kind words are always appreciated. It really helps us get the word out about the podcast. And yeah, it makes me feel good inside too. So thanks in advance for that.

Once again, thanks so much for joining and looking forward to the next episode. Hope you are too. Bye now.