The Wild Photographer

Social Media Strategies for Photographers to Amplify Conservation Efforts with Dana Cama

• Court Whelan

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In this episode of The Wild Photographer, host Court Whelan delves into the fascinating world of conservation photography with Dana Cama. A passionate storyteller and dedicated conservationist, Dana shares her journey of blending art with advocacy to inspire change and connect audiences with nature’s beauty and challenges.

Dana provides a behind-the-scenes look at her creative process, discussing how she captures compelling stories through her lens and uses her platform to raise awareness about critical environmental issues. She emphasizes the power of intentional storytelling and building connections, offering valuable insights for aspiring photographers and conservation enthusiasts alike.

Whether you’re a seasoned photographer, an environmental advocate, or simply curious about the intersection of art and activism, this episode will leave you inspired to look at the world through a new lens.

Expect to Learn:

  • The role of storytelling in conservation efforts.
  • Tips for crafting impactful narratives through photography.
  • How to build meaningful connections with your audience.
  • The challenges and rewards of balancing art and advocacy.
  • Practical advice for aspiring conservation photographers.

Episode Breakdown with Timestamps:


[00:01:11] – Introduction: Court introduces Dana and sets the stage for the discussion.
[00:04:17] – Dana’s Journey: Dana shares her beginnings in conservation photography and her motivations for blending storytelling with environmental advocacy.
[00:14:57] – The Power of Storytelling: How Dana uses photography to spark conversations and inspire change.
[00:21:39] – Social Media Strategies: Navigating the technical and emotional aspects of conservation work through social media. 
[00:49:14] – Practical Advice For Beginners : Dana’s recommendations for budding conservation photographers.
[01:05:50] – Closing Thoughts:Where can people find Dana on social media? 

This episode is kindly sponsored by:

LensRentals.com.  Use WildPhotographer15 promo code for 15% discount.  

My Full Camera Kit:

  • Canon R5 Body
  • Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8
  • Canon RF 24-105mm f/4
  • Canon RF 100-500mm f/4.5-7.1
  • Canon RF 70-200 f/2.8
  • Canon EF Macro 100mm f/2.8
  • Canon RF 50mm f/1.8
  • Peak Design Carbon Fiber Tripod

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Court:

Welcome, friends, to the Wild Photographer.

Court:

I'm your host, court Whalen, and we have a wonderful guest today, dana Kama, a super pro wildlife, nature, landscape and travel photographer that is joining us in a variety of capacities. Not only is she a great pro photographer, but she has probably one of the sharpest minds I know in terms of understanding social media in today's day and age. And what I find so applicable, so helpful here is our ability to be useful when it comes to our photography, and I think she shares some really, really insightful tips, not just in her own style of photography, but also how we can use our photography for the good of conservation and awareness building. But before I begin, before I get into the conversation, I wanted to cover a couple quick things. One I would love to start answering your questions about nature and wildlife photography on air. So if you would like to head over to my website and enter a question that you would like me to answer during these episodes, I will choose a question each episode and get to you personally for your queries on nature and wildlife photography. So head over to courtweylandcom, submit a question anda comment there in the contact field. That's C-O-U-R-T-W-H-E-L-A-Ncom, just first and last name courtweylandcom, enter a question there and I will answer at least one question per episode going forward. So that's a chance to get some some direct communication for any and all questions out there. In addition, I want to always thank our primary sponsors, lensrentalscom. If you head over to their website and use the promo code wild photographer 15, you will get 15 off your order, which is fantastic.

Court:

And, like I said, I I love lensrentalscom. I use them a lot myself because it's a great way to try out gear, to know if you think you might want to own that going forward, or try out a really fancy piece of gear when you're going on your next safari, your next foray into the woods, so to speak, and experiment with a lens that you don't normally get to use. So, lensrentalscom, big thanks. Awesome company out there, one of my favorites. So, without further ado, that was the housekeeping stuff.

Court:

Let's get into our conversation with Dana Kama. Dana, welcome to the Wild Photographer, thanks for being here. Thanks, court. In full disclosure, dana and I work pretty closely at Natural Habitat Adventures. We're in marketing and Dana is a social media guru and I have learned so much from her over the years and we're going to definitely get to that part because I think that's one of the most interesting dimensions of this talk today is how to use photography to either promote your own brand or your own kind of label, so to speak, or to use it for conservation value, or to get hired for conservation slash, travel photography, all those sort of things, social media is this really really interesting new dimension to it all?

Court:

And when I say new, I'm dating myself, because this has been around for some time now. I still view it as like yesterday, so we won't worry about that. But so my point is we are going to get to that. But I want to hear more about your overall journey in photography, because you're a phenomenal photographer and, although most of what you do and post for the job we work at together is not your own photography, you have an exceptional eye for photography. We're on a judging panel for a photo contest coming up soon and I want to hear about your own journey, kind of getting into the photographic world, which I can only imagine no doubt somehow overlapped or led you to this image heavy social type world too, but I won't put words in your mouth. Tell me about your journey in photography, dana.

Dana:

Yeah, thanks. Well, thanks for having me. This is cool. Luckily, I've had a camera in my hand since I was like 12. It's been nice.

Dana:

My dad gave me my grandfather's Canon AE-1 little film camera when I was 12 years old and taught me how to load film and sort of like, sent me on my way to go and take pictures, and so I was pretty, pretty young and my high school had a photo program which was awesome. We had a dark room and I had some pretty amazing photo teachers at the time that were just sort of teaching me the basics of photography. So I lived in the darkroom from like ninth grade to twelfth grade and you know, I didn't have a car then, so it was just me out on my bike doing what kids do, but with a camera, and then going into the darkroom and learning about dodging and burning and like all the sort of natural basics of photography, and kind of became really good friends with my photo teachers in like a kid way and they would give me slips to get out of my other classes so that I could just spend all of my time in the photo room. So it was my excuse to get out of class and also I just became totally obsessed with photography then. But when I was a teenager, the access that I had to things to photograph when like really focusing on those basics of like looking for light and movement was my friends, which happened to be a bunch of punk kids out on bikes and in bands. So I started to become a little music photographer and that took me down a path for quite a number of years as a touring music photographer in my early age I actually photographed for some magazines like pretty young like Spin Magazine, alternative Press Magazine, like some other stuff, and back then there weren't a lot of like young girls doing that kind of thing and I just got pretty lucky that some of my friends' bands were pretty successful. And I think that's where I got really interested in photojournalism and getting really close to my subjects. And yeah, like I just spent some time traveling in my like after high school as I continued touring around with some bands and photographing. Then I decided I needed to go to college. So I went to college for photojournalism.

Dana:

Sometime during that period of time I grew up in New York, sort of like sidetracked there, for a second Hurricane, sandy happened, my entire neighborhood was destroyed, and that I was sort of in the peak of learning about photojournalism. I had some pretty amazing professors at the time and right when the storm was happening, I like sort of begged my parents. I was like, can I stay in the house during the storm? I want to photograph the storm, like I was like this is like a peak photojournalist moment, sort of thing.

Dana:

They did not let me, of course, and like FEMA forced us to leave, but anyways, after the storm, photographed the storm, a bunch saw my neighborhood sort of like turned upside down, boats through houses, like environment totally destroyed. And where I grew up was very much this place where, like, the environment wasn't really something that you talked about a lot. It was like my dad was a fisherman and the ocean was a resource, but you don't, it wasn't sort of this like we care about the earth kind of thing it was just like yeah, the view of nature was from a different lens, like nature existed, but the way you talk about it, think about it, maybe conserve it different type of.

Court:

Yeah, I 100% hear you there.

Dana:

Totally yeah. When Hurricane Sandy happened and our entire neighborhood was trashed, covered in oil and like just totally decimated, this like switch went off for me and I was just like, well, why is nobody talking about this? Like our entire neighborhood was underwater Homes filled up floor to ceiling. Like I should be focusing on being a photojournalist, like focused on the environment. So I started majoring. My minor then became environmental sciences, with a major in photojournalism and that sort of stuck with me throughout college. Of stuck with me throughout college and around the same sort of time I ended up focusing a lot of my free time in volunteering, photographing for some nonprofits on the side, because a lot of my professors were sort of recommending that if we want to have something to focus on, is that we need to pick a focus and a story, not just making images about nothing. But I ended up through them, meaning a nonprofit that does a lot of work in Haiti, and I ended up spending a lot of time doing journalist work in Haiti with a bunch of doctors, and the kind of work I was doing there was certainly not glamorous at all, probably some of the most difficult images I've ever had to make, but really, really necessary for them to get donors back in the States to do the work that they're doing. And I went back to Haiti quite a few times to do that kind of work and that was some of the most humbling and I think the work that really sort of set the tone for how I continued on my career the rest of my life. And then after that I met some wildlife veterinarians who also asked me to work with them in different areas throughout the world. Also, they were doing some trainings and raising money to basically train in other parts of the world wildlife vets, like local wildlife vets. So I was photographing the work that they were doing to get donors in the States as well. So it wasn't this kind of like glamorous, pretty, I'm making pretty wildlife images, but really focusing on photographing these trainings and doing more of like that type of journalism work so that they could get money back in the States.

Dana:

And that was sort of where my career was before Nathab and my main job was working for this like photo printing company just to sort of pay the bills. But where my heart was was doing a lot of the nonprofit work and in between all of that I was in and out of living in cars and and like hopping around to living in different states and sort of figuring out where I could make pictures and be inspired for myself all along the way as well. So I feel like photography has sort of been the thread in my needle throughout my entire life and has been what has like drawn me to do all aspects of my life consistently, and eventually I ended up here at this social media role at Nathab and really I think I've always sort of been a supporter of what other people are doing and I feel like that's kind of what I'm like doing a lot of now. Here is like all of our field team is out in the world doing all this amazing stuff for conservation, and if that's the way that I can best support all the work that we're doing for conservation is like giving them a bigger voice. That's what I'm going to do and I'll make the fun images myself on the side and we get to go to some pretty amazing places and if I can send my images in for you know like sometimes WWF needs stuff for some of the other old nonprofits that I work for, I'll send them some of my images as well, but it's kind of always been in the back of my head of like, how can my images be of best use in the world in whatever like capacity they need to be?

Dana:

Or how can I be of best use in the world in whatever like capacity they need to be? Or how can I be of best use of, like, supporting others in what they're doing? So that's been kind of my photographic journey. And now, like gosh, social media has become like such a big tool in being able to expand the voice of conservation and nonprofit work and and all these kinds of things and it. I know a lot of people hate on it and I think if you get on the wrong side of it, it can be really terrible, but it also can be such an amazing tool if it's used in the right way.

Court:

So, yeah, that is a fantastic journey and you know I've known you for a couple of years now. I didn't know like any of that. That is all news to me and it's really awesome to hear Gosh the hurricane thing. Definitely did not know about that. We'll have to talk offline sometime about our shared hurricane stories.

Dana:

I know you've been through it too. Yeah, oh, yeah yeah, they're. They're fun up until a certain point yeah, and I was a kid, so I was just like at first I was like, oh, perfect photo, photojournalism story for me, right. And then after the fact I was like, oh, this is terrible. I have to like, we're just like putting on these like full body. It was like apocalyptic suits to go into our neighbors' homes and clear out trash. It was not what I had thought it was going to be.

Court:

No, that is wild, that is wild.

Court:

Well, no doubt your variety of experiences and versatility translates to everything that you're into today, and there are a couple of things that you said. I want to come back to One. I think it's really cool to hear about your stories in the darkroom and with AE1 and with, like a printing company, some of these frankly kind of like old school aspects of photography that at one time that was photography, that was everything. How do you feel that some of those original type methods and media, like film and printing, might translate to either your eye or your vision or your work, your perspective on photography today?

Dana:

Yeah, so much. I think. When you first asked me to do this podcast, I was like, just so you know, I'm not like a techie photographer at all. I am very much a person who's just like I look for light, I look for stories and I look for, like, the feel and emotion of an image and sometimes I feel like, even when I'm shooting, I have to sort of remind myself of like oh, you can take multiple images, like you're shooting on digital, you know, but I do sometimes will, especially if it's somewhere where I've really put a lot of time into a place.

Dana:

I will sort of wait more for the right moments because I don't want to like edit a ton after the fact of like going through thousands of images. But I think that I spend a lot of time in places waiting for light and I think that that like history that I have with film comes from that. When I went to school, they first asked us to take a large format camera and carry it around New York City and make pictures, and that is like such a big commitment and that is like such a big commitment.

Court:

Is that the kind of camera with, like the flash box? That like lights on fire, a big accordion thing and like a tripod that looks like abraham lincoln built it.

Dana:

That's for thing and like yeah I'm carrying that around on the subway and going to different spots in new york city and looking for light. So now I feel like that is like so ingrained in me that I'm, I will go and to places and just like find places that have amazing light and then wait for moments where wildlife will come into the frame or, like you know, predicting if an animal is going to like come into this spot or hope they're going to come into that spot. They often don't, you know, but like then maybe I'm just taking a photo of the light itself. Or yeah, I think I've also just tried to like play around with other tools with light.

Dana:

Like last year I like picked up this little like prism tool and I'm like, oh, let me like play around with this, putting it in front of my camera and playing with light, and so I think, like the whole film my home film history has really made me dial back on, like shooting as as much and really focusing on looking for light. I also don't spend as much time editing, perhaps, and I also think more about like the why behind when I'm taking something, instead of just like taking a bunch of pictures, which sometimes makes it really hard if I'm somewhere for one time, like I was in Tanzania earlier this year and I was like I might never come back here, you know. So like I need to take all these pictures. But sometimes I just want to sit there and like enjoy things, and I'm sure if I were to go back my images would be way better, because I know the place now, you know.

Dana:

but it's hard for me sometimes if I don't have a why to like take pictures or if I don't have like the perfect lighting moment to fall in love with it, I guess yeah yeah, I totally agree.

Court:

I mean, I think that the the why connects beautifully to the thing you said before, where you are trying to figure out how to be useful with photography, and I think that that's like that's a big question and a really important question today, because it's so much less of the how or the what, because pretty much everybody has access, at various budgets, to really good cameras, like really good, even if it's just on your smartphone, but what you end up doing with them, even if you just, you know, catalog them and make little smart albums on your phone or you print out little sticky cards and decorate the fridge with them, like what are you doing with them? And I think that that's a great segue into this idea of social media because, as you said, it has people that love it, people that don't love it so much, and it gets, I think, a bit of unfair criticism, because there are ways to either use it badly or to use it inappropriately or just even neutral, where it doesn't do anybody much good. But there's this awesome end of the spectrum where you can be very useful with it, and I feel like that's one of the lowest hanging fruits with how to do conservation photography or how to create movement or create passion or create a love for wildlife or nature, is just to show it and, as cheesy as it sounds, just create that awareness. So yeah, cheesy as it sounds, just create that awareness. So yeah, I kind of want to dive into that end of things. So how do you? You know you are the social media maestra. I did just learn maestra as a word.

Court:

There is a female version of maestro. Yeah, really, I was like I was typing maestro to someone. I was like this doesn't sound right. I bet you there's maestro. Yes, confirmed, you're the maestro of social media in many ways, but especially in NatHab, natural Habitat, adventures, kind of crazy wildlife travel where you're going to the ends of the earth to see some of the greatest spectacles and seeing it in pretty darn good quality and style. Simply put, like, where do you see social media kind of fitting into this realm? You know it's importance, it's intrigue, kind of its role and obviously there's like the marketing end and feel free to include that in the list, but maybe even thinking kind of beyond that, like because you clearly have passion towards the conservation side, towards the awareness creation side. Maybe it all mixes together, but yeah, where do you see its importance and its intrigue and its role ultimately?

Dana:

Yeah, it's hard for me because I think if I had free reign to do whatever I want with not have social media, it would probably be different than how it is. But like, at the end of the day, like we do want our travelers to come on trips, like talk a lot about our trips, right, but I think that what I see is like I think I'm going to kind of broaden the question a little bit.

Court:

Sorry to jump in here, but I'm afraid I was too narrow on the fact that, like its role within, let's say, the travel industry, I'm kind of thinking more of its role in society, in the ecosystem of the world itself. But then kind of down to this little niche that we're all involved in, which is kind of travel, wildlife, nature conservation, like how, where is this role in that as well?

Dana:

so you mean like okay, can you package the question in like a general sense?

Court:

yeah, like let's yeah, let's step back. So like, why use social media for getting people to care about things? That's really general. Where do you think its power is, its importance? Does it work? Do you get eyeballs on it? Do you think it creates movements that otherwise don't get created? That kind of direction of things, mm-hmm.

Dana:

Yeah. So I think, with my background in studying photography and studying photo history and all these kinds of different mediums, that photography has been served to us over a long period of time. Right now, I think social media is the way that we consume images and video the most. I think that right now, social media is the way in which we consume images and video the most, and maybe even news sometimes. And after studying photography and photo history in the past, that way has changed over time and even with journalism, I mean right now I think that social media is probably the main place that we consume images, video, news.

Dana:

And after studying photography, that used to be newspapers or I mean we used to probably watch TV, even a lot more and see images on TV Right, and like I studied some of these like prolific images, like I think about. Like like I don't know if you remember Kevin Carter's image of the struggling girl in Sudan. I don't know if you remember Kevin Carter's image of the struggling girl in Sudan, like during the Civil War there and like how that image like had people all over the world seeing the anything they possibly could for the war over there and helping kids. There was a backstory to that and that image won a Pulitzer Prize. That was shared through, I think, the New York Times. We would now see that image on social media right and like I think about like wildlife photographers, like Paul Nicklin's starving polar bear, I think that was shared on social media right and there's, I think, an image and a video of that and pretty powerful stuff.

Dana:

How much was that shared on social media and how did that get people to start thinking about climate change? So I just think the capability now of you know, back when Kevin Carter had his image out in the New York Times, versus now Paul Nicklin sharing his images on social media, versus now Paul Nicklin sharing his images on social media the reach and the way that we're digesting images is just changing so much. And social media has this powerful way of being able. You can just click one button and share and there's another button where you can just quickly donate or reach another person to be able to get somebody else to care really quickly and it just has this amazing magnitude of reach. That, uh, is extremely powerful. If it's used in the right way.

Court:

It can be used in, obviously, in wrong ways too but it kind of democratizes the ability to share viewpoint and visions and art and documentary style photography in a way that's like really never been feasible before. Like you know, so few photographers have worked directly with Nat Geo or can get published in the New York Times, whereas virtually everybody with a phone now can submit a photo to this like kind of online newspaper forum, absolutely, or the Pulitzer Prize, like those things still help. But I guess there is this avenue for people that are starting with almost nothing to get that image out there or that series of images along with a little story, and create awareness and passion and empathy for whatever the cause might be, whether it's, you know, something to do with the environment, whether it is more of a humanitarian or cultural thing. I mean with that like yeah, how do you feel about that kind of contrast or that dichotomy of sorts, where you have people that might already have a really strong following with an easier way to get eyeballs on their photography or an easier way to share that with the masses, versus someone that's just starting?

Court:

Like that's something that I personally struggle with is, like you know, how much do I invest in just the quality of each post and photo versus doing something to get the following, to then get more eyeballs in the photos, to then have it go to a wider audience and maybe, you know, meet that minimum threshold for the algorithm. It's something I constantly kind of grapple with and you know there's all these great kind of sayings and even books about it, like you know, a thousand true fans. You know you're not trying to get the all things for all people, you're just trying to be something very specific to a small cohort of highly dedicated and highly interested people. What are your thoughts on? Like the two sides of that?

Court:

I'm going deep I think you can just answer your own question, but say it in your voice, it'll be better.

Dana:

Yeah. So I mean, you could have 20 people who follow you and if those 20 people really care about what you're saying, those 20 people you might really have an impact on and they might end up donating to the nonprofit that you're talking about, or joining you on a trip, or going on a trip themselves to go and see it, or talking with their community about this thing that you're talking about. Or I think it's really about the intention behind what you're sharing more than it is about the followers, because, like gosh, gosh, you could post a pretty picture and it could just say, like some cheesy quote, you know, and like that's cool, but like what's the purpose behind it and what impact is that having on this place that you're going to? Or you know, like what are you sort of? If you want to be a conservation photographer, we're saying, like what sort of role are you playing then in in that?

Dana:

So I think, like, when it comes to followers, I don't really think that that matters and I think something that I say to our field team all the time is, like, being genuine and talking about your connection to the place or your experience is probably the most valuable and authentic thing that you can like express on social media, because we're all human and we all want to connect in some way.

Dana:

And if you think about social media and in a way of a community and building a little community on there, it's going to make other people want to connect with that place or that animal as well.

Dana:

So it doesn't really matter if you have 200,000 followers or 50 followers, because you could have 200,000 followers that don't actually connect, but you could have 50 that do, but you could have 50 that do. So that's my thinking behind. It is like more about the intention and about being authentic with what you're talking about and speaking to. And and that's probably going to take a little bit more time. And, uh, it's funny because when I talk about myself and my, my own own work, I've put so much more time in the last like year or two into into lifting up our field team and helping our field team with all this that I I don't even really do for myself much anymore. I have probably a backlog of like four hard drives and audio recordings of me talking to myself with like potential captions of stories, of things that I've photographed that I've just not released because I just I don't have time, but I'll talk to all of you guys about it all day.

Court:

I like what you just said, though I want to. I want to hear more. What? What is your process, what's your system for doing audio recordings? When you think of stories, do you think it is a kind of fine tuned, or is it work for you?

Dana:

I'm like the most willy, nilly person ever. So I know you know this, but I live in my camper van and I spend probably all of my free time like out, just like photographing or going to different places to look for wildlife. And if I have some sort of experience or encounter, usually it's around things that I photograph, but sometimes it'll just be about something crazy that I experienced that day while I'm out on the road. Because I'm driving a lot, I will record myself talking. I will record myself talking because I don't journal but I do audio recordings of myself talking because it's faster and I can do it while I'm driving. So I'm like that crazy person who talks to myself in their phone and we'll just sort of like either recap what I just experienced or talk about my day or whatever, and I'll get to them eventually, I think. Or maybe I'll like transcribe them and write them out and make them sound more, you know, concise.

Court:

Sure. So do you have a system for like recalling them? Like okay, so let's say you do three or four audio recordings. A couple of days go by, you have an awesome or a crazy day where you have 10 of them Like. How do you sift through those and go back through? Is there any way of like marking them or knowing which ones are the gold?

Dana:

I'll usually name them by like something crazy.

Dana:

That was like a part of it. So I was talking to my friend, one of our colleagues that we work with recently, because he was asking me about like I just don't know how to caption things. I don't know how to like he struggles with captions for things and I was talking to him about this, this whole idea of like being yourself, talking about your experience and being able to connect with people, and I told him about this thing that I do with like audio recordings, and I gave him this example of like me having a crazy encounter of like what you probably won't keep this but like me watching a cat get hit by a car in front of me and like watching it go through rigor mortis and like then me having to like pull over, cry and then like record myself talking about man and like then, like me having this sort of like existential crisis and then recording it and then later that day, me having the most like beautiful, one of the most like beautiful bighorn sheep encounters I've ever experienced in my life.

Dana:

And like that sort of like, like what a difference like that can be, like life and death, and it was like. So me like recording that and I think I cried like in both moments. Just a lot of crying happens when you live in a van and that's going to become the title of the episode.

Court:

By the way, a lot of crying happens in a van.

Dana:

An interview with Dana Campbell, it does. There's nothing glamorous about living in a van and whatever they say on YouTube is wrong. But yeah, like, and just so, eventually I will write some probably like crazy caption, dissecting that day with like some of my Big Horn Sheep photos. But yeah, like, just thinking about like. We all go through a lot of emotions when we have these like experiences out in the wild and I think sometimes, if you like, just have a little decompression. I know a lot of people journal and I think that has like the same sort of effect. But for me, audio recordings I love it. This is such a.

Court:

It's such a simple but such a good idea, because it is really hard to bridge that feeling, or at least bridge like your interpretation of it, from just seeing a photo, even five days or a week after and your computer being like, oh, I remember seeing that beautiful iceberg with the sunburst behind it, like that was really great. But it's a whole different ball of wax from what you might be able to achieve or say by like recording it minutes after you see that. But you're gonna have a different tone, a different vibe, a different outlook, probably better words, more words or at least more meaningful words.

Dana:

That's really cool and you just use like your phone's default microphone kind of recorder yeah, like that, whatever that like voice audio thing is in your phone, I just do that.

Court:

I love it.

Dana:

That's funny because sometimes you'll like really laugh at yourself, like if you hear yourself later on too.

Court:

I'm like I am crazy well, yeah, then that's the other kind of ancillary, really interesting part is, like it's a type of journaling. So not only do you get great fodder for stories and for little blogs or social posts, but you also get to kind of reflect back on a moment in your life that was pretty real at the time. But you know, memory is memory. Like it's hard to put yourself in that exact same shoes just by a single photo. But, photo and audio together. I like it.

Dana:

Yeah.

Court:

That was really cool, okay. So yeah, I want to stay on the social topic for the next question but kind of segue into a little bit of the strategy, and I think everything you said is probably strategy or like some of the best strategy of you know, not worrying about getting the followers although we all do because then we think that that will catapult us into more viewership and and more opportunity and more ways to get messages across. But I totally understand and and everything I've ever read is always the contrary of that it's stick with just consistent messaging, blah, blah, blah. Don't worry about how many followers, worry about the quality and the authenticity. But no matter how many times I read that, I still get carried away and think, man, how can I make something go viral? I just want something to go viral.

Court:

So, whether you want to talk about that aspect of things or just general strategy, you know a lot. You've learned a lot. There are a lot of trends. There are a lot of things that used to be true that don't really play a part. There are a lot of things that ring true throughout the entire realm and decade or two of social media strategy.

Court:

What are some of the most important lessons that ring true, putting yourself in the mind of a listener here that wants to. You know, I don't want to say necessarily grow their following, because that might not be the answer, but, like make an impact on social media. Do the right thing on social media to get their images out there and make their images useful. I mean, I think that's like it's a great way to distill it, like make your images useful. So, yeah, most important lessons that ring true, even with updates and new features. And then, yeah, if you know of anything that's like kind of developing or new or anything to pay particular attention to, I'd love to just get your your summary of that as you know it.

Dana:

Yeah, totally. I think one of the main lessons that I've learned is that it changes sometimes every week, like there is no strategy that you can consistently roll with infinitely. A couple weeks ago we were on the trajectory of reels do amazing. Let's do reels all the time. And then this week it was oh, our reels are kind of doing really bad. Maybe carousel posts are now all of a sudden doing better. Is Instagram now pushing carousel posts more? They constantly change things and there's no sure way to say this is going to be the strategy that you can like continue to work with forever.

Dana:

Social media is constantly a trial and error and like. You can't share something and if it doesn't hit, get bummed, and I think sometimes a lot of people get discouraged because they'll be like this is my favorite image that I have shared and it got three likes and now I'm bummed Like it could be one of the best images ever and the algorithm just doesn't show it to anybody and it has nothing to do with's like. No sheer like motive for anything on it. It's just all trial and error, and that's why I speak so much to just being authentic and like using your own voice, because I think that that is the most interesting thing and that's something that's really hard for me to do representing a company, because we are a company and not a person. So, like, how do I give a person voice to a company to make it interesting which is why I try so much to give our guides the voice of the company or, like use it as, like a window into the field, because I think that that's the most interesting. So, as an individual person, you're cool, you have your own personality. Like how do you just show that and talk about your experiences, and I think that that is what's gonna really show and be different than anybody else.

Dana:

Like, anybody can share an image of an elephant, and what's going to be different is you and your experience with that animal or your perspective of that animal, because that's like the only differentiator there, right?

Dana:

So that's really my like take on social media. I mean as far as like tips go for, like sharing the types of content, like if you're sharing a reel, this is really hard for photographers to hear, but, like the platform does not really love professional produced video content, it likes cell phone videos. It will read the metadata and not show professionally produced video content as much. So something that's like really great to mix it with is like sharing a carousel of some of your produced images and then also sharing some cell phone video reels of like some behind the scenes content, like while you're out in the field doing that kind of thing, to bring in more of that like real person experience, because if you're not Nat Geo or you're not BBC, like anybody can share that kind of stuff and those professional companies can share that kind of stuff and those like cell phone videos can like bring a more human element into that, and I think that the algorithm is also going to show that more.

Court:

Yeah, I've heard that too.

Court:

Just, you know, it kind of speaks to the authenticity of it.

Court:

So, with what you were saying about kind of being yourself, using yourself and your view and your vision as a differentiator, this might be a hard question, an impossible question, but, like, how does one cultivate that?

Court:

You know, like I hear it, and if I'm putting myself in someone else's shoes, like, yeah, I hear what you're saying, I know what the words mean, but, like you know, if I were just to start riffing on a social media post, it's going to, you know, it's going to depend on my mood that day. It's going to depend on what images are in front of me. It's going to depend if, like you know all sorts of extraneous factors, does that get baked into it? Or do you try to come up with a consistent voice? Or like, yeah, I don't know. You see I'm reaching for something here, but I'm wondering, since you've done this and you coach people on it and you kind of come up with that authenticity in a very unique way on behalf of a company, using dozens, if not hundreds, of individual accounts and all that, yeah, how does one walk up on that? How does one train themselves to do it?

Dana:

I mean you really don't have to reinvent the wheel. In terms of content, there's tons of other. When I share ideas with our field team, I'm literally pulling videos that other people have done and like that would be cool to like use as a reference and then just spin it, put your own spin on it right.

Dana:

So, let's say, if we're creating a post and you want to share some of your own images, something like a great start could just be like you went down to Mexico, you're going to photograph the Monarchs and you did the thing we just talked about of like you did an audio recording, recording, a voice recording of like your recap of the day.

Dana:

You had this like amazing encounter that day, so you have the memory of what you saw that day. Now you're going to make a social media post about it. You film yourself talking about the experience that you had and then show your images with it, like I think that sort of encapsulates that like whole experience that I'm talking about is like showing that you're a real person You're not BBC showing your images and like the amazing work that you're doing and like talking about the experience that you had and plus bonus points here, talking about any sort of like conservation involved and how other people can like get involved in in that as well. All of those things amazing, like great, so convenient content for dana, like that's what she's looking for that's.

Court:

That's super helpful, and do you use the voice recording as a voiceover?

Dana:

you could, if you really wanted to. I guess like why, why not? It's a good first start. I'd say like I think, ideally, like showing your face and like bringing a more like human element into it would be like probably the the most ideal. But I think you know, if you're, if you're like struggling to film yourself on camera and you're just not sure yet, like try anything and like see what works, like I was saying before, this social media is so much about like trial and error, so why not try the voice recordings and see how that goes too?

Court:

sure, but you were saying you use the voice recording more of like sort like notes, so then you kind of listen back to it and then kind of okay yeah, yeah, yeah, got it yeah.

Court:

Okay, that is awesome. That is a great takeaway homework assignment for those listening to try that more storytelling element of things. And there's so many different ways you can do that. So, okay, we're going to get back knowing Dana here. Things and there's so many different ways you can do that. So, okay, we're going to get back knowing Dana here. Kind of some random questions here. But what is the lesson you'd like to teach aspiring nature and wildlife photographers? Maybe something that you've learned, maybe something that you just think is really important?

Dana:

Yeah, I think that's a great question. And like, yeah, I think that's a great question. And like, coming from the world that I've been in and I've actually had some other young aspiring women reach out to me who are aspiring wildlife photographers or sort of want to do the job that I've realized a lot is that wildlife photography feels unattainable for a lot of young people, and it did for me for sure. I mentioned that I grew up on Long Island. I grew up in a place where there wasn't wildlife around. People are not like big adventurers. The outdoors feels like very foreign, but I grew up looking at National Geographic magazines.

Dana:

Never thought I would see a polar bear in my life, and I do think for a lot of younger people it feels like I would love to do this. It would be a dream for me to do this, but how could I get to these faraway places? You know, like it's just not super accessible for everybody, and so I think that like a lesson for me was like I was super scrappy. I was super scrappy. I lived out of a tent for a while and I got in my car and I traveled on my own, as cheap as I possibly could, eating ramen, and went to some of our amazing national parks and sat with wildlife. Before I could even do that, I found the wildlife that was closest to me and sat with deer and photographed deer. I found foxes and photographed foxes.

Dana:

Like trying to find the wildlife that is accessible to you and that's closest to you was like the first sort of step and build your portfolio from there and then expand as you can and I think it can be a hobby for a long time and then, like, if you want to contribute to conservation, reach out to nonprofits and see how you can help them. I mean, I'm still doing that. I know you and I are working on this like Johnson Tract thing. I feel like I'm like a fly on the wall helping with all these like big NGOs and lawyers who are like trying to fight against a mine, and then they're like we need photos and videos and I'm like, all right, I got all these photos of bears. Like here you go.

Dana:

You know like it's amazing how like sometimes these like really big nonprofits like they can do all this amazing work but they actually don't have images and videos and you can contribute and really, really help in some big ways in conservation communications and that's pretty, pretty awesome. So I think that would be my lesson, would just be like do as much as you can on your own and sometimes that's going to be being scrappy and like just using the access that you have to whatever's in your backyard and building a portfolio from there, because those like big, charismatic animals are not always going to be super attainable and you can make a lot of beautiful work with deer or elk or foxes and like that can be really beautiful too and you can do a lot with that and grow your career from there.

Court:

So yeah, excellent, love that advice. Yeah, very much agree. It resonates with me. I'm sure it resonates with many others out there and if it doesn't figure out a way to make it resonate with you, because it's good advice, that is the path.

Dana:

Yeah, I never. I really like the work that I'm doing now Like gosh. I never in a million years did I think that I'd be going to Tanzania or seeing a polar bear. When I was in Churchill and I was like sitting up on the Tundra Lodge with a polar bear. When I was in Churchill and I was like sitting up on the tundra lodge with a polar bear, like smelling the breath of a polar bear, I was just crying because I was like this is only existed in a magazine for me. Like never in a million years did I think that I would get to see a polar bear. I grew up on Long Island. We have squirrels like that, you know. It's just, yeah, crazy, crazy. So super grateful.

Court:

Yeah, yeah, hard work, a little bit of risk, bootstrapping it, chasing your passions and your dreams going big. I think that's true for so many things. So, yeah, well said, okay. So, as we round out the discussion, I want to switch to gear. Now, knowing you and hearing some of the things you said, I don't want to hear about the Abraham Lincoln camp. No, I'm kidding. Large format, no, I would love to hear that if you're still using it. But no, I what I mean is I have a sense that you probably are not super nerdy about gear like I am or like many other people are, but maybe you're not, maybe you're gonna, or maybe you are, maybe you're gonna surprise me, but nevertheless, I know you have gear, you got good gear, and it'll be interesting to hear what your take on it is. So, yeah, tell me what you're shooting on right now and what is like. Well, you can answer these separately, but like, what is your your favorite lens?

Dana:

yeah, so I have a sony a7r5 is my main still camera, and then I also have a Sony FX3, which is my video camera, because I do both film and still. A lot of that is for work. And then my big wildlife lens is 200 to 600, which I do shoot a lot out of my van window, depending on where I am. So that is like an amazing lens for that, and if I'm somewhere where I don't have to deal with as much weight restrictions or can pack a little bit more, I really do love that lens. My other wildlife lens that I love is a 100-400. My other wildlife lens that I love is a 100-400. And then, gosh, I feel like probably the 70-200 is like one that I bring with me on just like every trip.

Court:

I'm the same way. It's like it's so gratuitous, it's the most limited range, it's so medium in every way it's like it's not wide, it's not telephoto, really. Yeah, but it's so medium in every way it's like it's not wide, it's not telephoto really yeah, but it's it's the best lens when you can use it, yeah. Well, so tell me oh, yeah, go ahead oh and.

Dana:

And then like, honestly, like, for a lot of the video stuff that I've been shooting, I've been using a 24 to 70 a lot and I was just up in the Great Bear Rainforest so dark, like darkest place I've ever. Have you been there?

Court:

no, have not.

Dana:

Oh, I know darkest place I've ever photographed, like no sun the whole time, so like really bumping up the ISO so much and I was using the 24 to 70 a lot and it was just like my camera did great, like I was very impressed with the Sony, but it was like I use that lens a lot for shooting video and I really, really liked having that one on that trip. So those I have some other lenses, but I'd say like those are the ones that I'm probably using the most. I also have this little Sony RX1. That's just my like pocket camera.

Dana:

Familiar I like it because it feels like a film camera. It's a little older, I've had it for quite a while but like, yeah, it's like my like digital film camera.

Court:

Yeah those look cool. I've been tempted myself because they're kind of there's like a point and shoot right.

Dana:

Yeah.

Dana:

Yeah, but they got a little like 20, 24 to 120 kind of equivalent yeah, yeah, that's great, yeah, and then I do still shoot film sometimes too, so that's sort of my like I said. I do have other lenses that I use sometimes, but those are sort of my mains that I find myself grabbing the most when I'm going out on a trip. Luckily for me, a lot of my traveling is from my van, so I have access to all of my lenses a lot of the time, which is pretty great For social media stuff. I also have a GoPro that I will use a decent amount. I'm starting to use that more and more and I like it. And my phone how?

Court:

hot. Well, let me ask you between the 200 to 600 and you mentioned the 100 to 400, I find that to be interesting that you mentioned both those. Why would you use the 100 to 400 versus the 200 to 600? I'm just. I mean you personally, like what's in it for you between those two.

Dana:

It depends on the activity that I'm doing. If I'm hiking, I'm taking the 100 to 400.

Court:

It's true that 200 to 600 is a beast.

Dana:

Yeah, but interestingly enough I've found that, like when I've been out in Alaska with the bears, I've really wanted to use 600 millimeters a lot, like I have wanted that reach quite a bit more when I was in Lake Clark than Katmai, probably just because I think the bears were at like a little bit more of a distance there right yeah, and I'm like so, not a tripod person either.

Dana:

So it's really hard for me because I'm not a big person, I'm not very muscular, so like really trying to hold up 600 millimeters steady, steady, it's not super fun. But big lens, yeah, but I I bring my tripod and I'll like rest it on there, but you know, when bear bears or you know whatever is like moving around, a lot like being restricted to a tripod is tough it really can be tough sometimes.

Court:

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not the tripod guy a lot of people are, but I avoid them wherever possible. Just too limiting.

Dana:

But that's like I think it depends. It's like very situational. I like having both of those lenses. There's a little while where I was like, do I need both of these? But I like having the 100 to 400. When I'm hiking I hike so much. Like having the 100 to 400 when I'm hiking, I hike so much and like, depending on where I am, if I have that 100 to 400 and I'm out and I see a moose or you know, a mountain goat or something like, it's just nice to have that lens. I would not want to be hiking with my 200 to 600. So yeah, but the 200 to 600 is definitely more like from a safari vehicle, from my van, from like if I'm sort of like more stable sitting on a bucket or in a vehicle or something. So that's the difference for me of when I'm using those.

Court:

Okay, so final question here A piece of gear for nature photography that is surprisingly helpful but people may not think about.

Dana:

Huh.

Dana:

Doesn't even have to be a piece of actual camera gear, but just something that goes towards nature photography that time in the last two years in like very wet places is like truly waterproof equipment for your like a truly waterproof backpack if you're going to be in places where it rains, and like a truly waterproof rain cover for your camera. And I guess this is like very subjective to like where you are. If you're going to be in Africa during the not rainy season, then like it doesn't matter. I'm up in Alaska a lot Like I said, I was just up in the Great Bear Rainforest like so much of my stuff that claimed to be waterproof not waterproof.

Dana:

So much of my stuff is like soaked through and I'm like at this point where I'm like I need to be able to swim with my gear to like make this. And I just got this new backpack that is like amazing and fits me well I think also second to that like waterproof and like fits you well, like an amazing backpack that really fits you well and is like good for your gear. I know that so much of our team is like peak design. That peak design backpack kills me. It is so like heavy on my back and like just a shout out to our sponsors of this episode.

Dana:

Peak design, kidding, I'm kidding okay, if peak design wants to work with a small woman and like help me find something that fits my back, I'll do it. I'll work with you guys. I get made fun of on every trip I go on with that backpack and they're like cool, turtle, shell, dana, because it's bigger than me, it's like takes up my whole body and it's super heavy and like just kind of kills my back. And on this last trip I went on it was essentially a backpacking backpack. It had a strap here, it had a strap on my waist and was like is this the ortlieb, the ortlieb backpack?

Court:

okay?

Dana:

I felt like a million bucks.

Court:

So it also fits good. That's good to know, because I know that they're ultra waterproof, but it also fits good, okay.

Dana:

Yes, and I just think a lot of equipment is not built for smaller women necessarily, and it's sometimes hard to find. It's why I love Sony equipment so much is that it's smaller. I used to shoot on Nikon back in the day and my hands would hurt all the time holding this like big camera in my hands, because I don't have huge hands, and now I have like a much smaller camera that fits my hands a lot better and I feel like sometimes people don't think into that kind of stuff, but it makes a really big difference and so finding equipment that like fits you really well when you're out on a trip makes a really big difference. So, whether that's like renting gear to test it out I don't know if you can like always rent backpacks and stuff, but I kind of wish that I could have like tested out a bunch of backpacks Would love to be a backpack tester.

Court:

Right.

Dana:

But now I'm kind of at this point where I'm like I know that that Ortlieb backpack is, like meant for waterproof, but I'm like I would use this all the time just because of how comfortable it is.

Court:

Really Well, that's great to know. Yeah, I was considering that one myself, so cool to hear the positive feedback.

Dana:

Yeah.

Court:

Well, awesome Dana. Thank you so much for all the words of wisdom, the storytelling, the advice, the thoughts. This is great. I really appreciate it. Where can people find you if they want to learn more?

Dana:

I'm doing my best to keep up with my own Instagram. So I'm on Instagram at Dana Cama, d-a-n-a, c-a-m-a, and I have a website that's the same danakamacom, and yeah.

Court:

Cool. Well, folks go check it out, Dana, thank you.

Dana:

Thanks so much, court, this was fun.

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