The Wild Photographer

Wildlife Photography Essentials & Effective Planning with Eddy Savage

• Court Whelan

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In this episode of The Wild Photographer, host Court Whelan sits down with renowned wildlife photographer and nature guide, Eddy Savage. With over a decade of experience guiding in remote locations like the Great Bear Rainforest and the Arctic, Eddy has honed his skills in capturing stunning images of wildlife, from grizzly bears to the ethereal Northern Lights. His journey from a casual photographer to a full-time professional is one of passion, perseverance, and a deep connection with nature. Court and Eddy discuss the pivotal moments in his career, including his transition from adventure tourism to professional photography, and how he's learned to capture the beauty of the wild in some of the harshest conditions on Earth.

Throughout the episode, Eddy shares valuable tips on wildlife photography, particularly focusing on the gear and techniques needed to excel in extreme environments. Listeners will gain insight into how to prepare for unique photographic opportunities, from shooting in freezing temperatures to understanding animal behavior in the wild. Whether you're a seasoned photographer or just starting out, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge, underscored by Eddy's genuine enthusiasm and expertise in the world of nature photography.

Expect to Learn:

  • Eddy's background and how he started as a nature guide and photographer.
  • Essential gear for wildlife photography and tips for capturing unique shots in the wilderness.
  • Insights into photographing the Northern Lights and wildlife in extreme conditions.
  • How perseverance plays a role in becoming a professional photographer.

Episode Breakdown with Timestamps:

  • [00:00:00] - Introduction and Sponsor Shoutout: Court introduces Eddy Savage and LensRentals.com.
  • [00:01:34] - Eddy’s Journey to Nature Photography: Eddy talks about how he got into photography and guiding wildlife tours.
  • [00:05:41] - Starting with Aurora Photography: Eddy explains his passion for capturing the Northern Lights and what he carries in his kit.
  • [00:14:50] - Tips for Aurora Photography: A discussion about settings, composition, and techniques for shooting the Northern Lights.
  • [00:22:43] - Wildlife Photography Insights: Eddy shares his experiences photographing polar bears and grizzly bears in remote locations.
  • [00:34:55] - Practical Gear for Harsh Conditions: The importance of having the right gear and staying prepared in extreme conditions.
  • [00:49:35] - Conservation and Photography: How photography can be a tool for conservation storytelling.
  • [01:00:48] - Conclusion: Where to follow Eddy Savage and final thoughts from Court.

This episode is kindly sponsored by:

LensRentals.com. 

Follow Eddy Savage on Socials:

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Speaker 1:

Hey friends, I'm back with another episode of Wild Photographer, and today we have none other than the Eddie Savage Phenomenal photo guide for so many different things. You're going to learn a lot today from him, from everything from bear photography, general wildlife photography gear, and we're going to do a deep dive into his Aurora photography, which I know him best for, probably because I just drool over the images he's able to capture. We're also going to learn about some of his indispensable gear, things that you probably aren't thinking of, things that I didn't even think about, that I now carry with me in my kit because of how cool and interesting this is. And we're also going to learn pretty unique about his journey, his path to guiding nature, photo safaris, from younger years of picking up a disposable camera all the way to spending 100 plus days in the field with bears each year. So it's going to be a great one. Stay tuned.

Speaker 1:

But before that I want to do a quick plug, quick shout out to LensRentalscom, a partner of this podcast that I've been using for quite some time. If you use the promo code WILDPHOTOGRAPHER15, you can get 15% off. They are sponsors of this podcast and, more importantly, I just want you to try that system out. Try out Lens Rentals. It's a phenomenal way to rent really high-end gear or not so high-end gear, but it's a great way to try a lens before you buy it. They also have a program where you can purchase the very gear you rented, so you get to try it out. Did I like this 14-24 lens that we're going to hear about in today's talk from Eddie? So, without further ado, let's get into the talk today. Let's get into the discussion with Eddie Savage. Eddie, welcome, so glad to have you on today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thanks, Cort, and really happy to be here.

Speaker 1:

Well, I've been looking forward to this one for a little while now and I'm just going to jump right into it, if it's okay with you. I've got lots of questions about your photography, your adventures. We've got a lot to cover, so I'm just going to lead in with my first. Perhaps one of my biggest curiosities and questions here is you know, you lead some really epic nature and wildlife adventures to areas that a lot of people probably covet in the world to get to Kind of. I want to hear about your origin story. How did you get into this, and what advice do you have to those that might wish to follow in your footsteps of this amazing travel and photography career?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my origin story. Oh boy, I mean, it goes quite a ways back. If you were to ask my mom, I was running around when I was like 10 years old with a camera a fake camera taking pictures. And then we did this Rockies trip when I was like 11 or 12 years old, where I was given one of those disposable cameras and of my family I came back with the best composed images of the whole family. But as far as, how did I get into this field?

Speaker 2:

I took outdoor education when I was in high school and I had always I hadn't really been exposed a lot to camping, the outdoors, wilderness, all that kind of stuff. Just in how I grew up it wasn't something my family really did a whole lot of. And then I took this outdoor education program where we had to do everything from learning how to start a fire to build a shelter, to go canoeing and portaging those canoes and backpacking that kind of stuff, go canoeing and portaging those canoes and backpacking and that kind of stuff. And the goal of that course was to do and end up being like a five day expedition in into the woods with the whole class and anyways. So I described that that course as kind of a light switch for me, because prior to that I didn't really have a direction, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And then I took outdoor education and I'm just like whoa, this is a thing I can do, this. And that year I ended up getting like 98 percent in the class. And I went back the next year and I was the teacher's assistant for the class and ended up doing the kind of leaving high school and I went and ended up studying adventure tourism in college and so that kind of opened the door to a whole variety of different jobs.

Speaker 2:

But I started my first paid guiding gig when I was 19 years old. I was doing multi-day kayaking expeditions off the northeast coast of Vancouver Island with orcas and black bears and all that kind of stuff. I worked at a place that they called Orca Camp in quotations Orca Camp because it was this base camp right next to the Robson Byte Ecological Reserve where you'd wake up in the morning, you'd start making your coffee and you'd hear from the other side of camp orca, orca, and then you'd run down to the beach and there'd be a pod of orca swimming past the beach 20 yards off. So it was kind of like it was pretty extraordinary, especially as a first guiding gig, but it definitely like lit a fire in my heart and in my passion for the outdoors and that led to other things. I tried a variety of different um kind of careers or not careers, but a variety of different guiding jobs, um all of.

Speaker 2:

But the real struggle was kind of you know, when you first start out, there's really only a seasonal especially in bc, if you're doing kind of water-based or ocean-based stuff, there's only a seasonal um position, usually two to four months, and so I kept kind of looking-based or ocean-based stuff. There's only a seasonal position, usually two to four months, and so I kept kind of looking for what's next, what's next, what's next? Anyways, I started doing grizzly bear viewing tours in 2013, branching off from my kayak guiding and other boat driving experience that I had had and that kind of catapulted me even further into this field, eventually linking up with Nathav. After working with grizzly bears quite intimately for four years, I started talking with Nathav about doing polar bear trips, and then polar bear trips in Churchill, manitoba, with Nathav led to.

Speaker 2:

I think I did four trips my first year. Three of them I was shadowing, one of them. I led and then three weeks later I got a phone call from from not having like hey, we want you to lead these trips in China. We want you to leave these trips in Churchill for the summer, we want you to do Northern lights trips and kind of. The rest is history. It's just really built off of of that.

Speaker 1:

When it comes to China, I love it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, from Churchill to China, exactly, but when it comes to China, I love it. Yeah, from Churchill to China, exactly. But when it comes to photography, in that aspect I'd say kind of a big turning point, like I had always like had photography in the back of my mind during this entire process. I remember when I went to college, like in the first week that I was in college, I'm like what am I going to do? I had, like this 1991 Hyundai Sonata that had a green hood. It was a white body, a green hood and, being a young, a teenage boy, with spray paint I spray painted a Canadian flag on the roof and it was just like this, just brutal car to take into the back country of of in the logging roads around Campbell River where I was living at the time, but one of the the logging roads around Campbell River where I was living at the time.

Speaker 2:

But one of the first things I did is I went and I picked up a little point and shoot camera because I'm like I want to take pictures and so I would bring that with me and I'd go driving down logging roads with this car that had no right to be on any logging road and just try to find cool places and do a bit of exploration and get some interesting photos, and it was kind of a so it was always there.

Speaker 2:

And then, when I started doing grizzly bear viewing tours in particular, I was I was out watching bears for 120 to 150 days a year and I was also working alongside a whole bunch of people that were really you know, they were kind of in this, this growth, with their photography as well, and it was such a really a really cool hive of passionate people with cameras that we all kind of like bounced ideas and started really kind of building our skills together. So that's when I bought my first DSLR was back in 2013. And I kind of went off the deep end at that point and just took full advantage of being out in the Great Bear Rainforest watching bears for 100 plus days a year, camera in hand, you know, working with people from all over the world and their cameras, making sure they're getting good images, and that ultimately led to a continuation of my photography craft in all aspects of my career today.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's, it's. It's hard not to have a camera when you're in these extraordinary places, like my sort of origin story with photography is the same thing, you know, like you. Just you start with getting these epic places. You're like, gosh, I should bring a camera. Sounds like you've had some natural born talent, which is which is a plus, but a lot of it is just, you know, in in the right place at the right time and in a lot of practice and a lot of hard work, yeah, that's, that's fantastic.

Speaker 2:

So, um, obviously it sounds like you're mostly self-taught with photography, with a ton of experience yeah, that's exactly it a lot of trial and error, and I think one of my favorite parts just like on that note is working with travelers. You know I get people that come from all different backgrounds. I've got people like I had a fellow on a trip last year who, like his job was designing image sensors on mirrorless cameras and so just having to having, you know, a week to chat with him about cameras kind of gave me a different perspective. So, yes, like I'm self taught, but at the same time I'm just I'm almost interviewing everybody that shows up with a camera on trips. Yeah, oh, my goodness, what are you doing?

Speaker 1:

That's amazing. It reminds me of a story I heard from Garrett. Actually, you know, garrett, full disclosure folks in the audience. Eddie and I do guide together and we have a lot of common connections. But so, garrett, I was guiding with him for polar bear trips this, this past fall, and he was telling me about a photo presentation he was doing, I think, on editing, you know, like a Lightroom workshop, a Photoshop workshop, in the in the evening, and he was guiding a photo trip and, you know, only three of the 12 guests made it there that evening. Everybody else, you know, conked out, fell asleep, and then at the end of the presentation he goes through all these workflows of Lightroom. Have you heard this story, eddie? I don't know.

Speaker 2:

I think I remember it from polar bear season.

Speaker 1:

But the end is that he asks you know like, oh, so what do you guys do for your occupation? He says to the guests they're like oh, we write the training manual for Lightroom and Photoshop, or something. He's like oh, my God, like, we write training courses for Lightroom and Photoshop and here Garrett is on the podium teaching them how to do Lightroom. Yeah, funny, funny stuff. We get some amazing guests on our trips. Yeah, you get guests that design image sensors and goodness. So, yeah, the other part of the question I want to highlight just a tad is and this is probably one that's almost better off later in the presentation, but I've already asked it. So the cat's out of the bag. But I get this question a lot and I'll be honest, I I kind of have a hard time answering this. So if you don't have a succinct or or you know, answer off the top of your head, all good.

Speaker 1:

It's difficult to get into this job. A lot of it's luck, right time, right place, and it boils down to a lot of hard work and just doing the right thing. But if you were to be telling someone of really any age, I have a lot of folks that are in their their second, third career phase, wanting to do this kind of stuff, but someone at any age that wants to follow in your footsteps to to be on bear expeditions you know, more or less guiding them, taking photographs, being in your role. Is there anything that you would pass on to them as hard and fast advice what you should do to get into this position?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I remember something that a mentor of mine told me when I was 19, 20 years old was don't stop. Basically, what ends up happening is, in particular, like where I'm from, british Columbia, a lot of the work is seasonal, right, and people jump into a kayaking job or a bear viewing job or or something like that, and they can do it, you know, for for three or four months of the year, but then maybe they go back to university or maybe they have other goals, other things in mind. But there's kind of right, when you're starting out and you you're kind of in this, this field, where there's a ton of competition and there's there's a ton of people with similar levels of experience as you, um, it would. It kind of feels like, okay, how am I possibly going to get to this level?

Speaker 2:

But my, my number one thing is just don't stop, just keep going, keep being the person that turns up um, keep being a person that is constantly improving their craft and and and then you basically opportunities start to present themselves. Suddenly you're the most experienced person in the boat and you're just like, okay, cool, more opportunities come. So that's, that's a big one. Just don't stop, just keep going um and then certification wise. Can I just throw one out which has been like a game changer as well. Is the woofer, the wfr 90 hour course, that doing that one course as far, like from a guiding side of things? It's just like you look at the number of jobs that want that certification um, it's it, it just goes up like, like, like what's available to you. So that's another super good intel.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thank you for sharing, but don't stop. I love that I haven't heard said that exact way and it really resonates with me. Yeah, people often underestimate the value of time when it comes to things like mastery and your craft. So, yeah, if you are consistent and put in the time, amazing things happen when you keep on going Well, well put. Well, I'm going to switch gears a little bit here. We're going to get into some of like the techniques and tips and tricks and whatnot.

Speaker 1:

So I know you primarily as an Aurora photographer only because I'm constantly looking at your Aurora photos that I use in my job for catalogs and magazines and websites, and it's stunning stuff. It's, you know, not only is it great photos of the Aurora, but it's great travel photography where it's Aurora with people in like really really good positions, really kind of you know, puts yourself in the frame. When you look at Eddie's photos of Aurora, like you're, you're sort of there Um, it'd be better if you were actually there, of course, but you're, you feel like you're there. So, um, I'm going to dive into Aurora photography as our next topic. Walk me through your steps and your thoughts as you approach a night of Aurora, viewing what's what's kind of going on through your head to get the best shots possible. And you don't have to necessarily talk about the examples I just talked about, although I'm sure you probably will talk about them because they're they're really really successful for you. But yeah, your steps and your thoughts as you approach that night for the best shots possible.

Speaker 2:

Sure, um, I mean, it all starts with being prepared. Prepared, I think that's kind of the biggest. The biggest thing that that I make sure that I am is prepared. That means you know knowing where my headlamp is, knowing where my gloves are, knowing like just that, like just being extremely dialed into your kit. Um, is is step one. So I have like a pocket that I use every single night, like when I'm shooting Aurora. It's usually minus 30, right, it's cold, batteries don't live. So I've got one pocket that my battery goes into. I know where it is and just what being prepared and kind of being dialed into your kit does for you is it makes things really fast. So the Aurora isn't something that just kind of lingers in the sky, like when you see it makes things really fast. So the aurora isn't something that just kind of lingers in the sky like when you see it make a cool shape. That cool shape maybe lasts for 15 or 20 seconds. So you have 15 or 20 seconds to be ready, to be out of foreground, to get the picture. And so preparedness in that sense and being able to make a move very, very quickly is a big, a big consideration for me when it comes to that camera's always on the tripod, it's always ready to go, the settings are already set. It's all I have to do is plug the battery and make a switch and away we go.

Speaker 2:

When it comes to kind of considering foreground and kind of changing scenery and and looking at what people are doing, a lot of it is is very organic in the sense that something I try to do with my photography, or at least with my people photography, is I do very little. I do some staging, but very little staging like I just like that. There's. There's kind of a moment when people put their cameras down for a second or maybe you see a couple that was taking pictures. They just put their cameras down, they put their their phones in their pocket for a minute and they just stop and they kind of have this. You can just see the body language of awe flow over them and it's when I see that that I'm just like right there. I want to capture that moment, not only because I and it's when I see that that I'm just like right there. I want to capture that moment, not only because I think it's going to make a great image, but also because I want to give something to them of that moment that was a very organic, pure moment of awe. So that's, that's a big part of what I'm, what I'm thinking about when I'm taking people shots, when it comes to foregrounds and that kind of stuff, you know, I I go to locations that I know pretty well um, each night, and then I'm just trying to move around and and try different perspectives, different angles and that kind of stuff, and I'm always, I always have like new ideas.

Speaker 2:

I'm I'm actually I pull every single expedition leader that comes on a trip, um pretty much about like that, every other kind of co-guide that I've got, basically, so what foreground are you shooting? Or you know, you have any ideas for northern lights this year, you know, and, and trying to foster that inspiration, I'll also ask guests too, like, what do you think about this scene? Because I want to make sure that we're tackling everything. It's easy to go to the same place 20 times and be like, okay, I'll just take this picture with this tree here and the aurora ought to show up behind it.

Speaker 1:

And the way we go.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you get in a rut, sort of right. You get in a rut, and so I'm always trying to find like ways to work around that. And I've, yeah, each year I kind of I'm learning new things and talking to people and you know, the aurora in the sky is never, ever the same. It's it's always a little bit different. So, um, yeah, just kind of pulling the people around me to to help drive inspiration, and it works like really well, especially if I got a group 10, 10 or 12 people and we all start talking about what we're doing. You know, if we're out there for a few nights together, the first night we're all doing our thing, and then we come back together and then get a whole bunch of new ideas and go out the next night and we're all trying different things and it's, yeah, it's, it's fun that way and you get a good variety of shots to pick from as well.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic. Yeah, a couple really key points I want to pull out from that and reiterate really key points. I want to pull out from that and reiterate One is that when you see the Aurora in a cool shape in a photo, you know online, on a postcard, in a book, eddie's exactly right. It that's like a 10 to 15 second window and I don't think people realize that enough that, yes, it's not like the Aurora is a light switch where the whole thing is on and off it. It builds, you know, sometimes a little bit slowly, but the real dramatic action when it's moving and shape shifting and the photos that you're seeing, that make the best photography. It's pretty quick. So, yeah, being ready, that's a super, super practical, good advice. The other thing I want to highlight is his suggestion of use of people and shots.

Speaker 1:

Um, I think it is an underutilized tool in landscape photography, general nature photography, when you're in the biggest, most bodacious, awesome scenes, to include people. I think the, especially for those folks that aren't photographing all day every year and have this kind of burned into their minds of of what they could be doing. If you're, if you're, on a couple of photo trips a year as a guest, your natural inclination is to get people out of the shot. Right, you have a big waterfall, you have a big Vista. Let's, let's not have people in it, like, this is supposed to be a beautiful, tranquil landscape. But I think obviously you, you know once you get that shot, or even before you get that shot, getting people in, even like, honestly, I'm the same way with the best aurora shots.

Speaker 1:

When the aurora is really kicking, that's what I'm like looking for people around I I want to get people my shots because it is it. It provides this very earthly context to everything. I'm a big on context with Aurora because it's so. It is so otherworldly. You need to have familiar things in your scene, otherwise it makes no sense. And people, people, time and time again, are awesome for landscape photography. It definitely gets into the genre of travel photography, but, yeah, people, a huge part of it. The genre of travel photography, but, yeah, people, a huge part of it. Uh, so, so, eddie, uh, talk about your, your camera setup. What? What are you shooting with when you're, when you're in front of aurora, when you're shooting northern light season?

Speaker 2:

yeah, right now I carry two camera bodies with me, um, and then also my smartphone, uh, which is kind of the last five years. They've really come a long way.

Speaker 2:

But, my camera body that I use for most Aurora shots these days is a Nikon Z6 and then a 14-24mm f2.8 lens. So it's the kind of old version of it or the F-mount version of it. So I just use it with the FTZ adapter, the F mount version of it. So I just use it with the FTZ adapter. And then I've got I have a Nikon D7200, which is. I just picked it up because I wanted to have a second body for two very specific things. One of them was for time lapses.

Speaker 2:

Something I like to do at the beginning of the night, like if we arrive somewhere for Auroraora, is I'll. I'll pick a foreground, I'll take my my, uh, my nikon, the d7200, and I have a 10.5 millimeter dx fisheye lens that I stick on that one and I just stick it on a tripod somewhere that has a really cool foreground. Um, I have no idea what's gonna happen for the night at that point. I just set it up and I turn it on on time-lapse movie and I just get recording everything that happens in the sky until the battery dies. And then I'll notice the battery dies, I'll go replace and I'll just kind of keep recording. So when that Aurora comes through the sky. I've got it in kind of this time-lapse, this time-lapse movie, in a pretty cool way. So that's always nice because, yeah, it's just like the whole night in one shot. So those are my two cameras the Z6 I run around with, that's the one I'm doing most of my pictures with, and then the D7200 is off to the side getting stuff.

Speaker 1:

That's so interesting, so you set that up before the Aurora even comes out. Yeah, yeah, stuff that's so interesting.

Speaker 2:

So you set that up before the aurora even comes out? Yeah, yeah, and actually it's. It's super cool because you you kind of have that whole process of just the dark sky or maybe there's a little bit of cloud or whatever, and then it's it's just shooting, taking a shot every five or ten seconds, and then the aurora comes out and it's caught kind of that growth, that development of aurora and also, if I like, a really cool way to do it as well, using people. Is you set it up so maybe we've got like a warming building that we're in, like a cabin or something, so that every time like the aurora comes out, you see like this kind of really high speed flow of people coming out, looking at the sky, running around and then everyone going back in when the aurora fades?

Speaker 1:

it's, yeah, it's super neat and how long will your battery last doing that?

Speaker 2:

so that's the trick. If I was uh, because it's dslr, um, my battery lasts pretty long, like if it's, you know, the minus minus 30, it'll probably last an hour and a half okay, um and I have a theory behind that, which is because it's constantly taking pictures the camera is staying a little bit warm. It's like heating itself up Um and so it lasts a lot longer.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I never thought about that, but you're, you're right, it's creating a little bit of his own warmth. It's, it's a warm blooded animal, exactly. That's cool, um, okay, so talk to me about your camera settings. Um, yeah, what are you, what are you shooting on? Like manual mode, I'd imagine. And yeah, let's talk about aperture, shutter speed, iso, it's probably. You know, I've talked about this before on this podcast and I've written about it, so I have my own thoughts, but I I would love to hear what your perspective is on it yeah, no, I'm, I'm.

Speaker 2:

I mean I. I vary things depending on what's going on quite a lot, and so I usually have a starting point in the night which is iso 1600, five second shutter speed and then your widest aperture, so for me that's f 2.8 um, and then I go out see what's going on in the sky, take a picture okay, you know this is a bit bright. Then I can either drop my ISO or drop my shutter speed to reduce the light that I'm just getting there. So that's where I start. Now, what happens when the aurora is happening in the sky is totally different, because you can have so many different, there's so many different ways in which the aurora can present itself.

Speaker 2:

One of my favorite types of aurora to photograph is a really, really faint stationary band, and I say that because you get, like with the, with the, the effect of the camera and using long exposure, high, so you get the color in the sky, you can get your greens and, if you know, oftentimes you can't really see it at all with the naked eye, but you also will get a little bit of red up above if it's, if it's in the sky.

Speaker 2:

But what it enables you to do is basically thoughtfully change your foreground without being too concerned about that aurora going over to the other side of the sky, and then you have to run 100 feet the other direction to change your foreground up, so you can, you can be really thoughtful and creative and kind of move around. So that's those really slow stationary bands, um, and if those turn up on a really dark night then you get stars as well. So if those are in the sky then I'm usually looking at like iso 2500, 15 seconds, shutter speed, f 2.8, and you get lots of stars and that really faint aurora as well cool, so this is probably more controversial.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, those, those settings all definitely resonate. It's. It's funny. Aurora photography is like the easiest and the hardest thing all at the same time. It's easiest because it's like here are your settings, don't stray from them very much, but but so tricky because you know, obviously it's like you're shooting in the freezing cold, it's at night, it's dark, you're usually in big old mittens and then probably the most challenging thing this is where I'm getting at with this question is focusing, and I've definitely heard different strategies on this as well. Totally, what's your take, your technique, your thoughts on focusing the camera when shooting aurora?

Speaker 2:

oh, it's something real treacherous to do when it's minus 30, okay, but, like, just because it's like working with um, working with gloves and that kind of thing and and getting everything set up, so, um, when it comes to infinity focus, that's where you want to be. Of course, there's lots of different ways to go about that. At nighttime, if possible, I'm shooting, I'm using a star and I'm using kind of digital zoom on my camera to get in there and then adjust it. And then, once I find my infinity, I will either mark it or tape it or just remember where it is and put the lens back to that whenever I'm shooting.

Speaker 2:

And then, yeah, there's also kind of a light painting strategy where you can light, paint trees that are a reasonable distance away from your camera, in front of you, and then that gets your foreground at least in focus. And then, whether or not your, your stars, are in focus, you'd have to just double check. There's also trial and error, which has taken, you know, 15 pictures right around the infinity dial. Go, find, find the one that works the best, um, but yeah, I think, like, the best strategy for infinity focus is definitely like, when it comes to being prepared, you don't want to be fumbling around with that. If there's aurora in the sky, so try to do it in the daytime. And if you just just go outside and, like you know, pick a building that's a mile away and focus on that, make sure that that's nice and sharp and then lock your camera into infinity, then, you're going to be in good shape as well, so yeah, that's, it's a really interesting topic.

Speaker 1:

It's a fun fact, or more of like an annoying fact, that your camera lens, if you go, you know, obviously one end of the focusing dial is to minimum focusing distance. If you go to the other end, that's, you know, infinity more or less. No lens will be at true infinity at the very extent of its rotation at the opposite end, meaning you can't just be like, oh yeah, here's the closest focus. The other direction is the furthest focus, like it's a matter of nanometers or millimeters, at least within that, that rotation it's. I've heard and read theories on you know where your little hash mark is on, where it says infinity. You need to be on the inside of that line or the outside of that line, and when I say line, I mean like the half a millimeter line on your lens barrel is what we're talking about. So it really is like fractions of a millimeter, but it makes a huge difference if you're trying to get stars in focus or really distance so that you can focus. So yeah, eddie, great point on doing it in the daytime. Once you figure out your lens is infinity, it's. It's not going to really change very much from from scene to scene. Um, so you can start to build a little bit of a workflow in that. Yeah, I've heard photographers put their own little lines and put tape and all that sort of stuff. I will say you know my technique. Um, I've heard this. Uh, you know the infinity strategy.

Speaker 1:

I tend to go for more of like a foreground focus personally, um, mainly because I'm always trying to shoot in the trees or close to trees, and you know I've heard more people do it. Your strategy, to be honest. So maybe I'm doing something wrong here, but basically I, you know, I set up in front of a stand of spruce trees we're talking about Arctic Canada with black and white spruce trees and I get a little flashlight on them just so they're light enough. I focus it down, I switch from auto to manual and then that locks in focus. So I know that those trees are at least in focus, at least the foregrounds in focus. The problem is is that every time I move my camera I have to change that auto focus, because if those trees make a meaningful difference closer or further from my lens it botches it. So that's definitely something where infinity comes in and you don't have to worry about that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you got a touch on that for a sec? Yeah, please, um, yeah, so like with that too, that I mean something that I've got. Well, I mean, like when it comes to finding infinity on different lenses and cameras. I could have my you 14 to 24 F 2.8. And then I have somebody else's, 14 to 24 F 2.8. Their infinity marks are not going to be the same. They'll probably be a little bit different, because each lens is a little bit different.

Speaker 2:

I was manufactured, they tried, you know they want to have it as as, as smoothly as possible, but they're likely going to be off, like you said, the micro millimeter, right, but they won't, they probably won't be the same. So you can't just rely on that little infinity symbol or the marking there. You got to do it that way. And then with my, with my lens, something that I try to do, like with infinity is it's kind of got like the what is it? The minimum focus distance? So once you're at infinity with my lens, it's like anything from eight feet away to infinity. Is it going to be sharp?

Speaker 1:

um, and so that's why I I always kind of resort to stars and stuff from eight feet to infinity is me sharp, and that's just simply because of the wide angle nature of the lens right yeah, and that's once.

Speaker 2:

It's in that infinity position. So and like I do that you know, I'll set my infinity focus and when I'm doing like guest photos and stuff like that, if they stand at six feet they're blurry, but then I ask them to take two steps backwards and they're sharp. The trees are sharp, the stars are sharp.

Speaker 1:

Oh, interesting and did you determine that from just tests like lens? Tests on your own?

Speaker 2:

I, I think with each lens that I've kind of used primarily you can, that you can figure that out. But then also there might be like a calculator online or it might have some. I can't remember exactly where I found the details, but it's about for me it's about eight feet On my lens with my current setup. I think that, like, especially if you're shooting at a lens it's like an 18 to 55 or something like that, it's probably going to be like 20 feet. Yeah, um, it changes pretty quickly with uh, with an increase in the yeah, increase in focal length. But yeah, I found that interesting yeah, understood.

Speaker 1:

So a parallel to photographing northern lights, at least in our world, because we do this in similar regions and areas is photographing polar bears. And this is where I believe I first, probably first, met you, eddie, way back in the days, photographing bears. To start off with, my punchy question here, just kind of out of personal curiosity, is what is your go-to lens, what's your favorite lens for photographing polar bears? I'd say I'd ask you know what is your go-to lens, what's your favorite lens for photographing polar bears? I'd say I'd ask you know what is your strategy for photographing polar bears. But, holy cow, like we need eight more hours on this because you know there's everything, every strategy imaginable. But let me start off with at least what's your favorite lens for photographing polar bears.

Speaker 2:

That is a great question. I just want to say, yeah, I remember meeting you for the first time. Um, it was my first year doing polar bear trips in 2016 with uh, and I think we shared a room and I'm pretty sure I'm just like how do I do this court? Because I yeah, I think you'd you'd already been doing it for a few years by that point and I was just like, huh, new, new to the new to Winnipeg, new to Churchill.

Speaker 1:

Um, oh, yeah, Okay, yeah I appreciate your insight back then.

Speaker 2:

Nice, that was. That was good. You flatter me, thank you. Um, I was going to say the uh.

Speaker 2:

So the lens, oh man, the lens that I use for polar bear photography has changed over the years. I used to. I used to think that the best thing to have was like a 150 to 600. And I'm just like, yeah, you know, this means I can get the creatures that are the bears that are a little bit further away. I can get them nice and close, and I have, like this versatility within the lens and I think that is superb, like it's, it really is.

Speaker 2:

But kind of this past season and the season before, I've actually really switched to a 300 prime, but not the F2.8, a 300 prime, f4. And the reason for that is because it's a manageable size but it is so sharp. And the reason for that is because it's a manageable size but it is so sharp. And I feel like, if any, like I think that it is versatile in the sense that because it's so sharp, even if there's an animal that I would capture at 600 mils, at the 300, it's still just as sharp. It's so, it's so beautiful, and then I've just tried to be um more creative with that lens as well, um incorporating things like panoramas, vertical panoramas, um uh, and whatnot, and I've, I'm. Yeah, there's another process um folk like focus stacking, that I'm trying to do with it, but right now, anyways, okay, my favorite 300 prime f4 taken from the the uh, a page from the book of Brad Joseph's.

Speaker 1:

I remember that was his like, probably still is like such a go-to lens, like all of his top shots, all with a 300 F4. Um, I love it. I love it. So this is a Nikon lens that makes this, or no.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a Nikon lens and the one that I got because of when I, when I first started, I had seen some other photographers shooting with the 300 f4 and I was like, okay, that's cool. And so then I looked at it was 600 bucks and it's an older version, doesn't have a very great auto focus, but that's fine, I get set up and I can make it work, yep, okay.

Speaker 1:

So talk to me about tele extenders. Are you using one with it ever? What are your general thoughts on tele converters?

Speaker 2:

I haven't used a tele extender or tele converter. Um, what I can tell you, as somebody who spends a lot of time with grizzly bears as well, in the rainforest and in darker settings, anything that reduces the light to my camera, um, I'm extremely scared of.

Speaker 2:

I don't want it I don't you know, maybe that'll change when we get some new tech with with mirrorless cameras, and you know we'll be shooting at 128 000 iso um, but it's going that way, yeah, um, but uh, at this point, like I, I was sitting in, just as an example, sitting in a boat in the Great Bay Rainforest last fall, and it was an overcast day, cloudy Um, and there was, uh, someone sitting next to me who had, um, I think it was a 100 to 400, um with a two times extender on it and it was a Nikon Z8, like a very nice camera, um, and I had my Nikon Z6 with my 300 F4. And I asked you know, it's like how are things turning out? Just like, you know, I'm at like ISO 6400 and I can't get a sharp picture and I'm just like what? Like what's going on?

Speaker 2:

And I looked at his settings and because of the teleconverter, he could not get his aperture below F10. And F10 on a cloudy, rainy day, you're cooked Like, it's just not going to work as you'd want it. So that really kind of solidified my feelings and I'm just sitting there like shooting F4 with 300 ISO 2000. And I'm like this is great.

Speaker 1:

You know, this is easy, you know I can get lots of sharp pictures at 1000, 1, 1000 second yeah, oh man, my my like alarm bells go off so loud when I hear 100 to 400 with a two times extender, it's I. I hear people ask about it and talk about it quite often because on paper it sounds great, right, you know like, oh, I could have a 100 to 400 or 200 to 800, like how nice. But when you start doing the math and start figuring out that, that turns into, like you said, f10, f11 in some cases. And, to be totally honest, although the 100 to 400 class of lens is usually pretty darn sharp, I just noticed it does not do very well with tele extenders. So, yeah, if, if I had a little sound effect button, I would have my little warning siren go off. Just try to avoid zoom lenses with tele extenders. Um, they don't work very well. With primes it's a different story. But, uh, yeah, so okay.

Speaker 1:

So I don't want to get off of polar bears too much. I opened the door, the floodgate, to, you know, advice on polar bear photography. We don't have time to talk about all of it, or even most of it. We should do a separate episode on that. However, I'd love to hear one or two of your top tips for photographing polar bears, and I'm not even going to bait you or seed you in a direction like you could. Yeah, you could say anything you could. You could say like place or time of year or technique or the story. I mean, just go go wild, whatever. Whatever, top one or two that you want to share.

Speaker 2:

Oh, man, a lot of my, a lot of my tips come down to preparedness in that sense, because something that I've seen happen dozens of times is, if you're going to miss putting your camera down at a certain moment, you will miss something, you will miss a shot, a specific shot, and so, um, I would just say, be ready to to kind of hold your camera for longer than you would anticipate, in less desirable conditions than you would anticipate.

Speaker 2:

Um, and that's something that I do when I'm with groups like I am, I'm just like, don't like very firm, I'm like don't put your camera down, do not remove yourself, don't take your finger off the shutter, do not remove yourself. Because you know, as, as a bear guide, having seen, you know hundreds and hundreds of bears doing their thing, you get a sense, for you know, oh, this bear's about to do something exciting. Or you see the two bears kind of going nose to nose, getting ready to do a little bit of a sparring action. I know what's about to happen. I need to communicate that with everybody so that they just stay. And so being prepared and being ready to kind of go for the long haul in the situations that do arise is super important.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Well, so before you go on to another one or one or the next one, let me ask this begs the question so you're, you're at the ready a lot, yeah, what are your camera settings while at the ready? And I'm honestly asking from like a personal curiosity, because that is that's a tough one for me is like, yeah, that that's a tough one, like I, I also know to be ready. I'm probably not as disciplined as you, but the other half the equation is be ready with the right settings. And, yeah, I fully get. If you're like, well, it depends on the situation. Different situations have different settings. But what? What first comes to your mind? Like, what are you? What are you thinking of? Like, okay, not much is happening. Either the bears are sitting down or they're no longer visible, or you're not seeing any bears. Your camera's at the ready, but what settings are at the ready?

Speaker 2:

that's. That's a great question what settings? And so I've got three main avenues of readiness. So I personally shoot on aperture priority um for wildlife I set my aperture um and then the the only. The shutter speed basically changes in conjunction with my ISO. So that's the only thing that I'm adjusting manually and that that hails back from my time sitting in a boat in the rain in the rainforest, where I am trying to push my camera to get the lowest ISO with the lowest acceptable shutter speed so that I can preserve the image quality. You know, like I don't want to let it get really, really grainy, and so I was always trying to kind of pull it down right where I wanted the shutter speed by adjusting. That's the first thing I would adjust is my ISO. So that's my strategy.

Speaker 2:

Now I've noticed that that doesn't work for a lot of people. So, but I'm going for. My goal would be would be oh, here's actually another thing with preparedness, there's a very small chance that I'm ever resting my camera on something. Um, I'm usually hand holding it, but that's also because I'm the guide. I'm always sure behind everybody. You know I don't have the prime spots, but, um, if I had a prime spot I may be resting it on something, but I'm. But I also am recognizing that, in particular in churchill, we're on the rovers that are on suspension, so they're always moving. There's always going to be camera shake from vibrations, not necessarily from the engine but from vibrations, um. So I am trying to achieve a shutter speed that will basically eliminate the vibrations on my end of things. The bear can do whatever it wants, but as long as I can eliminate vibrations to ensure a sharp picture on my end of things, I am typically looking for one one-thousandth of a second or greater than my shutter speed. My aperture usually sits it depends um, but it usually sits between as wide as it can be at f4 up to about f7.1 um, maybe f8 if I have enough light for it. Um, but typically if the animal's 50 yards away and I'm shooting at f4, that's fine, just fine with me. Um and then my iso.

Speaker 2:

I'm just trying to keep that down, um, to preserve image quality. Um, that's my strategy when it comes to a big one with bears is exposure compensation. White bears on white snow is exposure compensation. A lot of people go plus one or plus 0.7 or two thirds or something like that to help balance the amount of gray in the photo. Make that more of a properly exposed white on white picture. Amount of gray in the photo. Make that more of a properly exposed white on white picture.

Speaker 2:

Um, that's great, but always be aware of what, the how the environment is changing, because, yes, you can have a bear on a white pond, a frozen pond, covered in snow, but then it's going to walk 20 feet and then be in front of some dark willows and you're kind of in a different scenario there. So just be aware with that. But yeah, so I uh my iso adjusting for best quality, try to keep it as low as I can. Aperture stays the same, usually f4 to f7.1 um, and then my shutter speed. I'm trying to achieve one one thousandth of a second or greater um, at least if I'm hand holding um or on like a, something that's slightly moving.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, those are great. Yeah, love it Fast. You know that's fast stuff. Fast from a lens, an F4. Fast from shutter speed. I've noticed my polar bear photography has improved as I go, faster and faster. You know, like the idea of shooting at one over the focal length. No, it's not fast enough for moving big bears, especially because they tend to take up so much of your frame that any, any sort of movement just gives too much blur as a proportion of your scene. So yeah, fast, fast, fast. Um, so I I cut you off before. I think you were gonna say maybe a second tip, were you on to something?

Speaker 2:

oh yeah, let me, uh, what was my other tip? I might have lost it. Um, yeah, versatility, um is key. So something that, uh, that I've seen is you know, you've got you have monopods or tripods and all this kind of stuff. Um, got you have monopods or tripods and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 2:

Um, you know, a lot of this is coming from like a, a position where I'm like, as, as the guide on board, I'm never like in front of people or I'm never having those prime spots, and so it's like I have to ensure that if I'm going to get pictures, I've got to be really ready, um, in that sense, to take a picture when I actually have a second to take a picture.

Speaker 2:

And so, with that, I just try to keep my system versatile and I keep everything set and ready and prepared. And so, yeah, versatile, being able to move from one side of one of our polar rovers over to the other side without, you know, having kind of a cumbersome tripod or monopod leg, getting caught or tangling up with other people, is really really critical, just yeah, and, and with that too, you know, bring whatever lens you so desire. But I like to kind of keep my system a little bit more compact and manageable for, for versatility, um, in particular, and this, this has gone, you know, just just kind of keeping things um, quick and easy to use. For me has gone a long way in every wildlife viewing situation that I've got, because if I'm trying to move my gigantic lens over and that kind of thing that it it takes those seconds that you're not going to get back when the bear is all done doing. It's really cool thing.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, it's all about that moment. I know I've, I've always been tempted to, you know, try to rent a 400 to eight or some crazy lens like that, but then I'm thinking honestly, like it is, it's always versatility. It's really more about the timing and the moment in your positioning, that it is the camera, the lens, and that's sort of a function of the stuff that you and I get to see as being so rare that when people get to see it that, yes, a sharper photo is better, but it's really about the moment and the behavior that the viewer the photo probably has never seen before. So, yeah, super astute advice there. Okay, so I'm going to zoom out for the next uh, couple of questions here from a 30,000 foot view. What is the Eddie Savage photo style and why? What is the style? Every photographer has their own style, of course.

Speaker 2:

It has changed over the years and I think I'm still trying to find my style when it comes to. I think something that I've been enjoying in the last two years is two or three years in particular is is kind of landscape wildlife shots. So I have 10,000 photos of polar bear heads, you know, and I could I could probably make a book on the different bear faces, right, like whatever. But something that I've really been enjoying is trying to, you know, kind of like the question, take the 30,000 foot step back or just like move back from the scene. Because you can get a picture of a bear where the bear fills the frame and you're just like, okay, cool. Of a bear where the bear fills the frame and you're just like, okay, cool, that's a bear. But what I find more interesting nowadays is is stepping back from that, be like, okay, we have a bear in part of the picture, but where is the bear and and how can, how can we put this animal into its environment in a way that people really understand the landscape? And so I've been I've definitely been toying around with that a lot more um, doing, yeah, working, working with like panoramic, like wildlife panoramas, um, and stuff like that and and uh, I met somebody last year who was doing focus stacking and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna try doing some focus stacking, um with with bears you gotta be pretty still for that, but yeah, I mean so just trying to like zoom out on things and get a whole, a broader picture.

Speaker 2:

And when it comes to landscape, I'm still very much figuring myself out. Um, I, I have historically been more of a telephoto landscape photographer, so, and actually I I would almost say that's what I love doing, like I is is shooting a landscape shot with a with my 300, for example. Yeah, doing some forced perspective. Um, you know, bring that sun in nice and close, make, make those layers really, really prominent. Um, I really like that and, uh, I think that that's. I'm going to continue down that, that direction. But I, I'm still definitely figuring myself out, um, both as a wildlife photographer and as a landscape photographer, I just love trying new things and and there's a lot of different ways to create a beautiful image.

Speaker 1:

So, absolutely, yeah. I mean, I think I think we, I think we're all evolving in that way and I have to say, for better or for worse, the remarkable progress of camera gear is kind of enabling, slash, forcing us to change our mentality on it too. I mean, the stuff I'm able to get, like you were just talking about with the high ISO, is giving me new perspective on things. So, yeah, that's great stuff. Okay, a couple kind of rapid fire questions here. What is a piece of gear for your nature photography exploits that is surprisingly helpful, that people may not think about?

Speaker 2:

Two foot by three foot microfiber towel A towel Don't forget to bring a towel. Okay, microfiber towel that it's a double purpose. One of them is it's a lens cloth, because it's a nice microfiber cloth. Number two is I'm I'm very rarely ever shooting in optimal conditions and I'll have rain, I'll have snow, I'll have water, moisture, um condensation, something end up on my camera. And I've got this two by three foot microfiber towel. It folds up and it fits into like a cargo pant pocket and I just pull that thing out and I can dry my camera off really quickly, clean my lens if I have to. It's just been like, yeah, when I was in Iceland last year Iceland and Greenland that thing lived in my pocket for two months like the same pocket. Gosh, that's really clever.

Speaker 1:

I have to say, when you first said that, I was a little, you know, I chuckled, like I'm sure most people do, but it does make sense. You know, I'm gearing up to go over to Borneo and I'm just thinking like, yeah, I'm going to get rained on a couple times, and it rained on a couple of times, and it's not going to push me inside, um, and all I really care about is enough water accumulating that it gets into the gears. You know we all have protected cameras these days, uh, with, with waterproofing, but yeah, just a little, huh, okay, um. Well, you know what I'm going to. I'm going to look up a good microfiber towel, put it in the show notes so everyone listening is armed with Eddie's favorite piece of gear, okay, cool. So this I'm going to do one more rapid fire question and then we're going to go to a little more of a deeper one.

Speaker 1:

But what is your favorite X-factor lens? And when I say X-factor, I don't know if I've termed this I'm sure I haven't but nevertheless, to me X-factor is like it's the lens that you're not going to use a whole lot of, um, but the shot you could get from it on a given trip might be like one of your top three shots, and some examples for me are like a nifty 50, like I don't do a lot of wildlife or landscapes with a 50 millimeter, you know, that's just. It's a unideal focal length. Um, a macro lens is one of those. Like not every destination you can use a macro lens. You certainly can't use it throughout the day.

Speaker 1:

And there are a couple other funky lenses out there like ultra wides or that's not that funky, but like fish eyes. So I'm kind of seeding the question a little bit here. But that's what I mean by x factor, like something that is like. For instance, I was talking with Rich DeGavea and his that I sort of ascertained from the conversation was like a 135 prime for photographing gorillas. I'm like you weirdo, but no, of course not. It's genius, phen's phenomenal, it's like a portraiture lens.

Speaker 2:

But heck, yeah, you should use that for photographing gorillas. So that's what I'm getting at here. There was a lens that I bought a few years ago. I saw it pop up at one of the camera stores around here and I'm like, oh, that would be fun. And actually it's become a regular for time lapses in Churchill during Northern light season. It's that.

Speaker 2:

It's that 10.5 millimeter DX Nikon lens, and it was when I bought it. It was actually manipulated, so it had the lens hood very meticulously cut off of it, cause it usually has like the permanent fixture on it, and so now it's just this boldest lens with no lens hood around, and, and I think the the purpose, uh, that it was basically to get like a full circular photo. Um, I bought that with one shot in mind, which was I wanted to go into a cluster of trees and shoot straight up through the trees so that the trees come around in a circle around the the aurora shot, and I did that and it was great. Um, so that one is kind of like a little a sneaky little x-factor lens. I haven't found an applicable use for it outside of um very specific shots and time lapses in churchill, though, but it always comes with me um for northern lights photography trips.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, no, that's exactly what I mean. So 10.5 millimeter, this in DX, you'll have to remind me, on Nikon, that's like the crop frame.

Speaker 2:

That's a crop yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so an equivalent on full frame would be like a 14 or 15 millimeter something or other, but it probably that exact thing probably doesn't quite exist. That's one of the things with crop factors is that, you know, oftentimes you get some really cool niche lenses, um, okay, good, good to know. Okay, so the. The final question here, um, that we'll take a little bit more time on, involves conservation. Um, with photography, how do you see photography personally intersecting with the world of conservation, whether it's in the trips you lead, whether it's in the uses of the photos you produce from them? How do you see that intersection?

Speaker 2:

um, that's a. That's a great question when it comes to conservation. I think that there is. I mean, when I, when I look back on it, humans, we're all storytellers, right, we love stories, we love reading, we love learning, we love creating images out of words. And I think that photography, when paired with words, in the form of maybe a short entry, a short journal, a short article about it, it has the ability to really bring people into a very extreme level and so a very intimate level as well. You mentioned it earlier. Like you know, an Aurora shot where it feels like you're actually there. I think, when you're talking about kind of these larger world conservation issues, if you don't know much about what's going on in the Arctic but there's a good photo journal kind of put together about something that's going on conservation initiative in the Arctic it can help bring the reader learning all this information much closer to the actual scene and get a better vantage point.

Speaker 2:

So I think there always will be an extremely important place for any conservation initiative with photography and connecting people to a place. Yeah, I would love to have a better understanding for my personal work of being able to, you know, use my pictures in that way to bring people's attention to those things and, like, I do it in a limited way with, uh, with instagram or you know that kind of thing. But, um, finding a way for photographers and photographers photographers like myself to to really have a greater impact with their images would be would be nice to see, but I don't know exactly how to do it yet it's something that I think is going to come online at some point.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I think it exists in very nascent ways, in very kind of siloed parts of the industry, but nothing really mainstream yet. But yeah, I share your thoughts there. Now, on the same front, do you have any advice for someone that would be much more in the beginning phases of their photography or maybe they're quite far into photography but more beginning in their travel photography and wish to think through a lens of storytelling, of conservation, storytelling anything that comes to mind that you'd like to pass on to that individual to think about, to do to, to learn to harness what's you know, approaches that you found successful, or even just things that you think would be helpful, that you wish you knew back when you started?

Speaker 2:

I think that, oh, that's that's an interesting question. Um, I think something that I that I look back on now so it's something I've been doing more recently is doing a lot more writing two pictures that I took in the past, which is interesting because when I took those pictures, I wasn't necessarily thinking, oh, I'm going to take this picture so that I can write a little you know, a thousand word conservation story about this species. So that's something that I thought was interesting. I mean, if you go into a place that I'm thinking about China a lot right now, because that's my next expedition I've been doing, I've been writing a few articles about it to put with pictures that I took five years ago, in some cases seven years ago, but so, definitely like going into that.

Speaker 2:

When I go to a new place, I'm always trying to document everything as thoroughly as possible and I often end up with probably about 200% more photos than I would actually ever want. Or, like you know that I that I should have, I mean there's no, there's no limit. Or, like you know that I that I should have, I mean there's no, there's no limit. Hey, there's no limit, you can just keep taking pictures, but I'm really thankful that, you know, seven, five to seven years ago, when I was doing these China expeditions, I was going to these remote nature reserves and I know that these places are not extremely well traveled, I know that these animals are not seen by a lot of people in the wild well-traveled, I know that these animals are not seen by a lot of people in the wild. I know that this ecosystem, the environment that I was in, was exceedingly rare and so, knowing that, going into it I took a lot of pictures. I took pictures of pretty much everything that I could imagine, documenting it, from where we were staying, the vehicles we were driving, the people we were working with, all the way to, you know, the fleeting two minute glimpse of an endangered species that we got to see, trying to document everything.

Speaker 2:

And then I left with that, knowing okay, I've got these images, and I didn't do anything with them or even look at them, you know, except periodically, time to time, shuffling things around, until I was like, okay, I've got the energy, motivation and mindset right now to write something and put a story to it and then publish that, so that there's kind of this information going about them, so as somebody going, you know, just starting out, or you know you're going to be going to these special places. You're going to be seeing animals that are in a state that will not be the same in 10 years. If we look at most species on this planet, there's a lot of changes happening quite quickly, and so it's like you're capturing kind of a glimpse in time. But you're also getting this extremely special opportunity to capture these animals, and so, um, don't pass that up so that maybe you can, you can look at it, and if you, if you end up wanting to use that or end up wanting to do something with that in the future, you've got it.

Speaker 1:

So well put. Thank you, eddie. Well, uh, final final question. Final question how do folks find you? How do they find you on social? Do you have a photo website you want to direct people to? Where can we find Eddie Savage?

Speaker 2:

You can find me on Instagram Eddie Savage Photo, facebook Eddie Savage Photography, and then my website, eddiesavagephoto.

Speaker 1:

All right, fantastic. I will put those in the show notes. Eddie, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. I love talking with you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you, court. I really appreciate all your questions and, yeah, love working with you. I love reading your posts and listening to your podcast, so I'm excited to be featured. It posts and listen to your podcast, so I'm excited to be featured. It's cool, awesome. Anyways, I'll see you somewhere in the world for five minutes, as is our habit these last few years.

Speaker 1:

I know right, it has been that way. All right, Well, let's make it happen a little bit longer next time. Well, cheers.

Speaker 2:

Eddie, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Hey, take care, bye.